Wane on Hamlin

[Exiled Wiganer]

I think some are extrapolating into infinity something which simply does not merit it. Wane praises Hamlin in every interview he gave after the game, and we are leaping on a stream of consciousness comment about quick ptbs also being important.

Wane found him, Wane signed him, Wane has been getting him fit, and Wane deserves the credit for how well he did yesterday. If we liked what we saw, we should be praising Wane and in many cases taking back the strong criticism he was given for signing an unknown in the first place.

[Josie's friend]

FPN was called the wrecking ball because of his defence.
We have other props who play in an entertaining style, so clearly it is possible to play in that style.
I think a bit of broader perspective would allow people to enjoy what we are seeing a bit more. We are going well, and playing a much more entertaining style, and keeping players fit. That was exactly what we asked for.

Our last entertaining prop was Scott Taylor, since then none.

[Wintergreen]

Is he for real?

A player driving though the tackle, causing the defensive line to retreat is not good for momentum?

Lost the plot.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1) That looked exactly like the Hamlin from the admittedly brief highlight videos and clips that we've seen, so I'm not sure you can give so much praise to Wane. Hamlin has been coached in the NRL youth system for several years and you're suggesting any good he does is all down to Wane. I'm pretty sure Wane also hadn't seen Hamlin play a full game and went off the recommendation of Richards and Maguire. If anyone deserves the credit for how he played yesterday surely it's...well...Gabe Hamlin!

(You may indeed have been one of those who said at the time what a great signing it was. I was unsure, and unexcited, but I really like what I have seen. Wane has been coaching him since he came over, so his current condition is down to him. Wane signed him and picked him, so signing and picking him is down to him. If he did his due diligence via an ex player and an ex coach, that seems to me to be exactly what a British based coach should be doing.)

2. Regarding his comments we'll just have to see how it goes. I can see why some would be concerned as they've just seen a good performance from a prop that's different to what we've all been used to but in a good way.

(He praised him in every interview. Time will indeed tell, and I am willing to wait and see.)

3. On the one hand we've got Ben Flower. He clearly plays the way Wane wants and he's by far our best prop at the moment. He makes sure he wins the collision, uses footwork and hits the ground early. It's working brilliantly for him.

(which is a good thing.)

4. On the other hand look at FPN, who was nicknamed the wrecking ball and used to really go into contact with some force. Playing the way Wane wanted he just fell to the floor as soon as contact was made. It didn't work for him. He was ineffective.

(His nickname was originally because of his defence, rather than his attack. He played at half pace, and looked disinterested all last year. Compared to, say, Clubb, full on and full gas, and Flower. He clearly wasn't doing what Wane wanted because he got shut of him as soon as he could.)

5. We've also got Tautai who looks nothing like the player he was at Wakefield the year we signed him. He looks like he wants to pass every time and never runs hard into contact or use his powerful leg drive, or offload after contact - but that's what he's good at, it's what makes him dangerous. What we've got from Tautai at the moment is a waste of talent. There's no point in him going to ground early when he's slow to get up. There's no point in having someone who can offload if we don't look for a second phase and go to ground on contact.

(T has been very good at times under Wane's coaching. He is not reaching those heights at the moment, and will be under pressure because of the new found ability to keep people fit, and competition for places. His starting role is in his own hands. His entire career has had highs and lows, which suggests he has issues, rather than he is having his talent coached out of him.)

6. Maybe Wane wants to mould the props into playing the same way. I just don't know what's wrong with a bit of variation and having props play a style that suits them.

(Maybe he does, and maybe lots of coaches have a style they like their teams to play to. I don't look at Navarette, Sutton, Hamlin, Flower, Tautai and Clubb and see 6 identikit props though. They all have different qualities and ways of playing. And they are all coached by Wane. I think he has an overall structure, within which he wants people to work. If his plan is to get the ball to Williams and Sam with time and space, then it makes sense for his forwards to play in a way to maximise that. I suspect what he meant to say was that there is a balance between metres gained after impact and quick ptbs. Which sounds feasible to me. Of course if you make metres after impact and have a quick ptb, you are giving both time and space to Williams and Sam. I would stake my house on Wane's being happy to get quick ptbs any which way including by props denting the line.)

7. If Alex Walmsley suddenly became available, would Wane turn him down because he doesn't go to ground early? I think we'll see over the next few weeks whether Wane's criticism was just to give him something to think about or whether he really is intent on props not making metres after contact.

(I don't know if he would value Walmsley as highly as Saints. He was signed by Cunningham, who valued size far more than we do. For some reason, we believe that mobility has more value than size. We are looking good so far this year, and have had a lot of good years since 2010, so I am not sure the case against has been proven beyond doubt.)

For what it's worth, I suspect he made a mess of trying to rein in the praise for the lad on the basis of one performance and failed to give a nuanced answer. Across the piece, though, he made clear how happy he was and is stressing the selection dilemma he now faces. Which has to be good.

[morley pie eater]

I think some are extrapolating into infinity something which simply does not merit it. Wane praises Hamlin in every interview he gave after the game, and we are leaping on a stream of consciousness comment about quick ptbs also being important.

Wane found him, Wane signed him, Wane has been getting him fit, and Wane deserves the credit for how well he did yesterday. If we liked what we saw, we should be praising Wane and in many cases taking back the strong criticism he was given for signing an unknown in the first place.

We'll said !!!

[morley pie eater]

1) That looked exactly like the Hamlin from the admittedly brief highlight videos and clips that we've seen, so I'm not sure you can give so much praise to Wane. Hamlin has been coached in the NRL youth system for several years and you're suggesting any good he does is all down to Wane. I'm pretty sure Wane also hadn't seen Hamlin play a full game and went off the recommendation of Richards and Maguire. If anyone deserves the credit for how he played yesterday surely it's...well...Gabe Hamlin!

(You may indeed have been one of those who said at the time what a great signing it was. I was unsure, and unexcited, but I really like what I have seen. Wane has been coaching him since he came over, so his current condition is down to him. Wane signed him and picked him, so signing and picking him is down to him. If he did his due diligence via an ex player and an ex coach, that seems to me to be exactly what a British based coach should be doing.)

2. Regarding his comments we'll just have to see how it goes. I can see why some would be concerned as they've just seen a good performance from a prop that's different to what we've all been used to but in a good way.

(He praised him in every interview. Time will indeed tell, and I am willing to wait and see.)

3. On the one hand we've got Ben Flower. He clearly plays the way Wane wants and he's by far our best prop at the moment. He makes sure he wins the collision, uses footwork and hits the ground early. It's working brilliantly for him.

(which is a good thing.)

4. On the other hand look at FPN, who was nicknamed the wrecking ball and used to really go into contact with some force. Playing the way Wane wanted he just fell to the floor as soon as contact was made. It didn't work for him. He was ineffective.

(His nickname was originally because of his defence, rather than his attack. He played at half pace, and looked disinterested all last year. Compared to, say, Clubb, full on and full gas, and Flower. He clearly wasn't doing what Wane wanted because he got shut of him as soon as he could.)

5. We've also got Tautai who looks nothing like the player he was at Wakefield the year we signed him. He looks like he wants to pass every time and never runs hard into contact or use his powerful leg drive, or offload after contact - but that's what he's good at, it's what makes him dangerous. What we've got from Tautai at the moment is a waste of talent. There's no point in him going to ground early when he's slow to get up. There's no point in having someone who can offload if we don't look for a second phase and go to ground on contact.

(T has been very good at times under Wane's coaching. He is not reaching those heights at the moment, and will be under pressure because of the new found ability to keep people fit, and competition for places. His starting role is in his own hands. His entire career has had highs and lows, which suggests he has issues, rather than he is having his talent coached out of him.)

6. Maybe Wane wants to mould the props into playing the same way. I just don't know what's wrong with a bit of variation and having props play a style that suits them.

(Maybe he does, and maybe lots of coaches have a style they like their teams to play to. I don't look at Navarette, Sutton, Hamlin, Flower, Tautai and Clubb and see 6 identikit props though. They all have different qualities and ways of playing. And they are all coached by Wane. I think he has an overall structure, within which he wants people to work. If his plan is to get the ball to Williams and Sam with time and space, then it makes sense for his forwards to play in a way to maximise that. I suspect what he meant to say was that there is a balance between metres gained after impact and quick ptbs. Which sounds feasible to me. Of course if you make metres after impact and have a quick ptb, you are giving both time and space to Williams and Sam. I would stake my house on Wane's being happy to get quick ptbs any which way including by props denting the line.)

7. If Alex Walmsley suddenly became available, would Wane turn him down because he doesn't go to ground early? I think we'll see over the next few weeks whether Wane's criticism was just to give him something to think about or whether he really is intent on props not making metres after contact.

(I don't know if he would value Walmsley as highly as Saints. He was signed by Cunningham, who valued size far more than we do. For some reason, we believe that mobility has more value than size. We are looking good so far this year, and have had a lot of good years since 2010, so I am not sure the case against has been proven beyond doubt.)

For what it's worth, I suspect he made a mess of trying to rein in the praise for the lad on the basis of one performance and failed to give a nuanced answer. Across the piece, though, he made clear how happy he was and is stressing the selection dilemma he now faces. Which has to be good.

:eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

[No straw damn us]

When Wigan went to look at Walmsley the recommendation was not to sign him. The reason his lateral movement was a major concern from a defensive point of view.

[ragman]

Whether we agree with Wane on tactics or not is not the issue for me.

For a coach to bring a player from the other side of the world, play him in a game in which he has a stormer, and then to go out in public with those comments is disgusting. To publicly undermine and effectively belittle Hamlin's efforts on his debut is about as bad as man management and morale building get.

It's better to keep quiet and let people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Whether we agree with Wane on tactics or not is not the issue for me.

For a coach to bring a player from the other side of the world, play him in a game in which he has a stormer, and then to go out in public with those comments is disgusting. To publicly undermine and effectively belittle Hamlin's efforts on his debut is about as bad as man management and morale building get.

It's better to keep quiet and let people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Have you checked everything he said about Hamlin? It is hugely positive. I am no one eyed Wane fan, and expected him to be gone by now, but here he made one ill judged statements among a host of positive comments, and simply does not deserve to be lambasted.
Oddly enough, we get more life and posters on a thread like this than on positive threads after big wins.

[w.thomas]

Whether we agree with Wane on tactics or not is not the issue for me.

For a coach to bring a player from the other side of the world, play him in a game in which he has a stormer, and then to go out in public with those comments is disgusting. To publicly undermine and effectively belittle Hamlin's efforts on his debut is about as bad as man management and morale building get.

It's better to keep quiet and let people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Bang on! Completely agree with this. Also if you think running the ball hard and making meters is a bad thing, you need a check up from the neck up and know nothing about RL. Winning contact makes PTB actually quicker than dropping down when a fingers laid on you. How many pens do you get from dropping down fast? Not many! How many from winning contact? Plenty! Because the defenders aren't set, they are always set when you've gone down with a bad look. Wanes clipping our wings with his bad coaching, reckon with a new coach we could be world beaters.