Sam to Catalan?

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DaveO
Posts: 15904
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by DaveO »

moto748 wrote:So you are saying you don't mind "player power" telling the coach what to do, because in this instance you don't rate the coach or his preferred selections? If that is the case, I think it's a somewhat dangerous road.
No I am not saying that. I am saying it should never have got to this stage (if it has and it's really true he wants to not play FB, I thought he did!).

He's not the first player who has his preferred position but I don't think there should have been any debate or second thoughts from Wane to him playing in the halves from the off.

Wane ought to be smart enough to have spotted the writing on the wall if Sam T was unhappy and not wait for that to boil over. He should have recognised what is right for the team was to play Sam T in the halves before he even asked and done so. We may not be having this discussion had he done so. Not wait for the player to try and exert any player power.

The alternative is to be loyal to Powell and weaken the side.
What I will say is that I think it's far from self-evident that in the halves is Sam's best position, and even if he plays at full-back, we have other options in the halves (Escaré, Woods, Shorrocks) if Powell does not perform. If Wane continues to select Powell at 7 and he plays poorly for the next few games, then you have a case.
I think it's blindingly obvious Powell quite simply lacks the skill set and rugby brain of Sam T.
Me, I am not panicking just yet, we are second in the league and scoring plenty of tries. We have two big tests coming up; let's see how we get on.
And we got there with Sam T in the side with an attack better for him in the team.
No straw damn us
Posts: 2067
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:12 am

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by No straw damn us »

So here are real questions. Nothing to do with Sam Powell.

1) Would you give Sam Tomkins a new four year deal at his current salary?

And

2) If you were Sam Tomkins would you take a deal at Catalan on his current salary for four years.

My answers 1) no 2) Yes.
joeb
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:49 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by joeb »

Nowt to do with position he has chosen to follow queen's head again and he doesn't want to be paying 40% tax similar situation with Micky mac
shaunedwardsfanclub
Posts: 6338
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:08 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by shaunedwardsfanclub »

Wigan_forever19​85​ wrote:
shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:What a difference a season makes, last year the majority of fans were criticising Sam and wanted rid. Now, the majority of the fans want the club to resign him no matter what the cost. What a set of fickle supporters we have at Wigan!

We are not party to all the goings on and we have to trust that the club get this right, if we don't agree then we can vote with our feet. Obviously, from IFL's point of view he needs to get it right as it could damage his significant investment.
Or is it that he was very poor last season and it was unknown whether he would regain anything like form - now he has he does have a huge worth to the team, if he played like he did last year this year id be packing his bags for him

Nothing fickle about it, that's sport!
Ok but given his form and injuries would you have got rid of him at the end of last season or taken a chance that he was going to come good and hence continue to pay him marquee wages? Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Winning is down to 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration - Shaun Edwards
moto748
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by moto748 »

DaveO wrote: I think it's blindingly obvious Powell quite simply lacks the skill set and rugby brain of Sam T.
Powell not as good as the third best (arguably) player in the comp shocker!
DaveO wrote:
And we got there with Sam T in the side with an attack better for him in the team.
No-one's saying don't have him in the team! I am saying it's not self-evident that in the halves is his best position. Regardless of Sam Powell.
Wiganer Ted
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by Wiganer Ted »

Perhaps Catalans are throwing money at quality players in the hope it will attract top quality applicants for the coaches job after they sack McNamara. Surely he can only have a couple more defeats and he will be gone.

Caboosegg
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by Caboosegg »

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:What a difference a season makes, last year the majority of fans were criticising Sam and wanted rid. Now, the majority of the fans want the club to resign him no matter what the cost. What a set of fickle supporters we have at Wigan!

We are not party to all the goings on and we have to trust that the club get this right, if we don't agree then we can vote with our feet. Obviously, from IFL's point of view he needs to get it right as it could damage his significant investment.
I questioned keeping Sam last two season, and i stand by it if anything if theres truth in this rummour then it proves the point. We have supported the player through a rough patch and it seems the repayment is him jumping ship the first sniff of more money. I know we can't keep every player and its a short carrer but a small amount of loyality would be nice to see.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
moto748
Posts: 4649
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by moto748 »

Wiganer Ted wrote:Perhaps Catalans are throwing money at quality players in the hope it will attract top quality applicants for the coaches job after they sack McNamara. Surely he can only have a couple more defeats and he will be gone.
Catalans have had all sorts of coaches in their time, and it hasn't seemed to make a lot of difference. So I don't think it's especially down to McNamara.
DaveO
Posts: 15904
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by DaveO »

Flash wrote:You are missing one very pertinent point in all this, Dave, when you advocate the "Catalans are willing to pay it, so should we" argument: for the last 8 years Wigan have been competing at the top and winning trophies. Catalans have not.

That's not because they have been spending less. They have signed more big names in that time than we have. It's because they have been getting less value from that spending. It's very possible that this is yet another example of throwing big money at the wrong player.


Pertinent point? What Catalans have done or not is totally irrelevant.

The issue with Sam T is whether or not Wigan want him in the side going forward. The fact there are few class players knocking about in SL means his value is what it is. It does not make one jot of difference which other SL side came in for him, the decision Wigan have to make is do they want a player of his ability in the side?

The competence (or lack of it) from Les Cats is totally irrelevant. Sam T is our player, we can decide to offer him a deal or not. If we offer him a deal and it's not enough to keep him and he leaves (or don't even offer him a deal at all) that is a decision that is all about Wigan, not Les Cats.
Maybe... just maybe... Wigan know what they're doing here and will continue to compete for trophies. We'll only really know when we see who the incoming players are and how they perform.
Who are these incoming players? I don't know of any. You seem to be trying to justify the rumour Sam is off based on even more flimsy rumours of mystery signings. Our recruitment lately has been pretty uninspiring and the only big name we have been linked to I am aware of is Hardaker. :eusa4:

That said the point about Wigan continuing to compete for trophies is the only relevant point in your post IMO and relates to something I have said previously. Which is how do we want to see Wigan go about doing that?

Wigan may decide in an average SL they can still win things on the cheap with a bunch of average players.

Some fans would clearly be happy if Wigan won SL with such a side. To them the result is all that matters and you wonder if they take any enjoyment out of watching top players pull off moves and plays.

That is not what I want and don't think it is what most fans want either. The fans want both success and quality players. They lament the inability of SL clubs like Wigan no longer being able to temp over top Aussies. Yet in Sam T we still have one of the few quality players knocking about in SL. That is what puts his value up, not that a badly run Les Cats side wants to sign him. He's also IMO the kind of player fans want to watch.

Players like him do not grow on trees. The club is not simply going to be able to russell up another Sam T. If he goes and the club hands the job to Escare, good prospect though he is, the quality of the team drops. They club may think this is still good enough to win things and it may well be so but doing so despite engaging in a cost cutting exercise might be smart if you want to save a few bob on wages but it's not supposed to be about that.

So what do you want to see? The club gamble on a bunch of average players who given the lack of quality in SL might still win a trophy? Or the club getting hold of and keeping the best players realistically available to an SL side (of which Sam T is one) which should increase the chances of success and success with style?
Cherry_Warrior
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:04 am

Re: Sam to Catalan?

Post by Cherry_Warrior »

What exactly has he done in 2 and a half years to warrant all the furore. Scored a try against a beaten Widnes side? He has been pretty much a passenger until recently and collecting top dollar for it. He missed last season through pratting about drunk and got injured. Maybe the management don't like the way he treats and talks to the younger players in the squad. I personally wouldn't take another chance on him with a big money long term deal. When he went to NZ we thought it was the end of the world but it wasn't. If we didn't miss him when he was in his pomp i am sure we will be able to cope now. There are other options available. Whether we go for one of them or not is another issue.
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