Should Joel be Sacked?

[medlocke]

So have you never made a grave mistake?

I was shocked & appalled when it all eventually surfaced but it’s been dealt with by the club, he’s apologised. It won’t be the first & won’t be the last.

If it wasn’t a Wigan RL player but ordinary Joe Public there wouldn’t have been all this outcry! Probably just two measly lines in a local paper!

Think it’s been blown out of all proportion now!

Let’s move on.

No, i'm perfect

Aye, alreet ????????

Beams of sunshine radiate from my bum

[DaveO]

NO

This is in danger of becoming a witch hunt, yes his behaviour was unacceptable, and hopefully he is rightly embarrassed, but action has been taken, he has been suspended and fined, move on. The real problem here is trial by media, if there wasn’t a video of it, it would have blown over by now.
Alcohol is a problem, but there are other issues, how was he allowed to get so drunk on licensed premises? The landlord and staff have a legal responsibility to stop serving him if he is visibly inebriated, this may have been what started the incident, I don’t know, does anyone? All we have seen are the 2 videos that are the result, we don’t know what lead up to that point or the context. I’m not blaming the staff by the way, just trying to look at the different angles on this.

I did a quick Google search on drunk rugby players, and found this incident at Bath a month ago

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... g-10346165

Basically 11 players on a “wind down” session organised by the club got drunk, streaked round the ground and hurled insults at George Ford, problem is he was hosting an event (a kicking clinic) for children whose parents had paid for them to attend.
It wasn’t videoed, so it never made anything other than a story in the mirror, No one got sacked, that happened on club premises, at a club event.

We can’t compare to other codes, but there are precedents look at Dec or Ant whichever one isn’t on TV at the moment, he was bladdered and drove, crashed his car, into an innocent passer-by, to me drink driving is infinitely worse than what Tomkins did, I didn’t see Matthew Right hosting a debate on whether he should be allowed on TV again. He admitted a problem, and will be a national treasure again this time next year.

People make mistakes, people get punished that’s the cycle, Tomkins isn’t a role model, he’s a rugby player (or not if you look at some people’s opinions) my son loves the rugby, but we’ve explained to him what Joel did and why it was bad, that’s my job as a parent, my son gets his moral standards from me, not the 13 players on a rugby field, he idolises them as young fans do, but it’s served a positive, my son is now anti-alcohol as he can see the effects it has on people, he’s only 11 so that may change, but that’s what need to monitor as a parent.

As someone else mentioned, this can very quickly become another Terry Newton, player ostracised for making a mistake, loses his lively hood and can’t support his family, we know how that ended.

This is a convenient way for some fans to try and get a player who is underperforming at the moment out so we can bring someone new in.

I think the comments about it quickly becoming a Terry Newton are ridiculous. People lose their jobs all the time for all sorts of reasons including discipl,inary ones. They do not top themselves and the notion that the club (as some other poster said) need to take into account his personal situation when thinking about any punishment is quite frankly bizarre.

Talk about trying to make a drama out of a crisis!

In fact I think bringing Newton into it is a pretty risible link to make.

Suggesting fans are using this as an excuse to get at an unpopular player isn't much better either.

You are right about one thing, if there wasn't a video of it, it would have been over by now. It certainly would and there would also be no fine nor suspension either which reflects badly on the club and its willingness to brush this under the carpet. But there was a video and that video highlights the bad behaviour. It puts how bad it was into focus. I suspect had there been a video of some other players behaviour we would not be signing him but just because there isn't that doesn't mean it's an excuse to let JT off.

As to RL player snot being role models. Talk to Rads and the club. They say they are.

[moto748]

Beams of sunshine radiate from my bum

But sadly, not from your posts!

[moto748]

I think the comments about it quickly becoming a Terry Newton are ridiculous. People lose their jobs all the time for all sorts of reasons including disciplinary ones. They do not top themselves and the notion that the club (as some other poster said) need to take into account his personal situation when thinking about any punishment is quite frankly bizarre.

Talk about trying to make a drama out of a crisis!

In fact I think bringing Newton into it is a pretty risible link to make.

Suggesting fans are using this as an excuse to get at an unpopular player isn't much better either.

You are right about one thing, if there wasn't a video of it, it would have been over by now. It certainly would and there would also be no fine nor suspension either which reflects badly on the club and its willingness to brush this under the carpet. But there was a video and that video highlights the bad behaviour. It puts how bad it was into focus. I suspect had there been a video of some other players behaviour we would not be signing him but just because there isn't that doesn't mean it's an excuse to let JT off.

As to RL player snot being role models. Talk to Rads and the club. They say they are.

We often disagree, but I'm with you all the way on this, Dave.

Fact is life ain't fair, yes, people in the public eye do get treated differently to ordinary folk. Bath RU players and Ant and Dec are not our concern, and not relevant.

[josie andrews]

NO

This is in danger of becoming a witch hunt, yes his behaviour was unacceptable, and hopefully he is rightly embarrassed, but action has been taken, he has been suspended and fined, move on. The real problem here is trial by media, if there wasn’t a video of it, it would have blown over by now.
Alcohol is a problem, but there are other issues, how was he allowed to get so drunk on licensed premises? The landlord and staff have a legal responsibility to stop serving him if he is visibly inebriated, this may have been what started the incident, I don’t know, does anyone? All we have seen are the 2 videos that are the result, we don’t know what lead up to that point or the context. I’m not blaming the staff by the way, just trying to look at the different angles on this.

I did a quick Google search on drunk rugby players, and found this incident at Bath a month ago

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-un ... g-10346165

Basically 11 players on a “wind down” session organised by the club got drunk, streaked round the ground and hurled insults at George Ford, problem is he was hosting an event (a kicking clinic) for children whose parents had paid for them to attend.
It wasn’t videoed, so it never made anything other than a story in the mirror, No one got sacked, that happened on club premises, at a club event.

We can’t compare to other codes, but there are precedents look at Dec or Ant whichever one isn’t on TV at the moment, he was bladdered and drove, crashed his car, into an innocent passer-by, to me drink driving is infinitely worse than what Tomkins did, I didn’t see Matthew Right hosting a debate on whether he should be allowed on TV again. He admitted a problem, and will be a national treasure again this time next year.

People make mistakes, people get punished that’s the cycle, Tomkins isn’t a role model, he’s a rugby player (or not if you look at some people’s opinions) my son loves the rugby, but we’ve explained to him what Joel did and why it was bad, that’s my job as a parent, my son gets his moral standards from me, not the 13 players on a rugby field, he idolises them as young fans do, but it’s served a positive, my son is now anti-alcohol as he can see the effects it has on people, he’s only 11 so that may change, but that’s what need to monitor as a parent.

As someone else mentioned, this can very quickly become another Terry Newton, player ostracised for making a mistake, loses his lively hood and can’t support his family, we know how that ended.

This is a convenient way for some fans to try and get a player who is underperforming at the moment out so we can bring someone new in.

I think the comments about it quickly becoming a Terry Newton are ridiculous. People lose their jobs all the time for all sorts of reasons including discipl,inary ones. They do not top themselves and the notion that the club (as some other poster said) need to take into account his personal situation when thinking about any punishment is quite frankly bizarre.

Talk about trying to make a drama out of a crisis!

In fact I think bringing Newton into it is a pretty risible link to make.

Suggesting fans are using this as an excuse to get at an unpopular player isn't much better either.

You are right about one thing, if there wasn't a video of it, it would have been over by now. It certainly would and there would also be no fine nor suspension either which reflects badly on the club and its willingness to brush this under the carpet. But there was a video and that video highlights the bad behaviour. It puts how bad it was into focus. I suspect had there been a video of some other players behaviour we would not be signing him but just because there isn't that doesn't mean it's an excuse to let JT off.

As to RL player snot being role models. Talk to Rads and the club. They say they are.

You say it is ridiculous Dave, but do you have inside knowledge about what is happening in Joel’s private life away from RL?

You never know but something could have triggered the drinking binge!

Because from several people who know Joel well, they have all reiterated that it is totally out of character for him to behave this way.

[The Yonner]

Isn't there a "Don't Know" button?

The crucial question here is can the club trust JT not to re-offend? If not, there has been a breakdown in trust and confidence which is irreparable, and he should go.

If this episode was really out of character, as some who know him well have suggested, then he should be given a final written warning.

Unfortunately, as with the Bateman case, disciplinary proceedings are confidential to the parties concerned, so if he stays we will be unlikely to get a full explanation.

[w.thomas]

Yes, we don't want that type of behaviour at our club plus he's rubbish so its 2 birds 1 stone. Get rid of the tomkins brothers once and for all, arrogant whoppers the lot of them

[Lazy J]

I think the comments about it quickly becoming a Terry Newton are ridiculous. People lose their jobs all the time for all sorts of reasons including discipl,inary ones. They do not top themselves and the notion that the club (as some other poster said) need to take into account his personal situation when thinking about any punishment is quite frankly bizarre.

Talk about trying to make a drama out of a crisis!

In fact I think bringing Newton into it is a pretty risible link to make.

Suggesting fans are using this as an excuse to get at an unpopular player isn't much better either.

You are right about one thing, if there wasn't a video of it, it would have been over by now. It certainly would and there would also be no fine nor suspension either which reflects badly on the club and its willingness to brush this under the carpet. But there was a video and that video highlights the bad behaviour. It puts how bad it was into focus. I suspect had there been a video of some other players behaviour we would not be signing him but just because there isn't that doesn't mean it's an excuse to let JT off.

As to RL player snot being role models. Talk to Rads and the club. They say they are.

Raising the link to Terry isn’t making a drama out of a crisis, talk to Danny Sculthorpe about how having played a team sport his entire life and then having it taken away, is not only a loss of job, it’s a loss of identity, and comradeship. Which led to him sitting on Billinge hill with pills and a bottle of vodka. I’m not suggesting that would happen, but who’d of thought Terry would have done what he did. As Josie says we don’t know what’s going on in the background

So if we sacked Joell there would be a instant topic appears on who to get to replace him, it’s sport, fans always want new players in, but in a salary capped sport it’s difficult to bring players in mid season, if we’ve no cap space we can’t bring anyone in, unless someone is moved on, and in some people eyes I think Joel has just volunteered

2 topics down from this one is a discussion on players for next year, I just find it hard to believe all these people who want to move him on have never made a mistake or got drunk, granted he was an obnoxious tool, but it appears an isolated incident.

Players can be role models when on club duty ie in work, and that’s when they need to be the idols, but even god got a day off. But as I said it’s down to how this is used, my lad is now asking questions about alcohol and short and long term effects, as a parent we are discussing it in terms he can understand, and this should be part of his rehab, and can be used as a positive,

[Lazy J]

Yes, we don't want that type of behaviour at our club plus he's rubbish so its 2 birds 1 stone. Get rid of the tomkins brothers once and for all, arrogant whoppers the lot of them

DaveO here you go

[Wiganer Ted]

Joel be sacked? Absolutely not, ridiculous idea.
Joel messed up big time and made himself look like a foul mouthed drunken lout. He's been fined a large amount of money, suspended for four weeks and apologised.

The investigation will be concluded and if there have been a number of similar incidents which we the fans don't know about then his future will be in doubt. If this is the first incident of this kind then he will continue at the club, and should do.

I've only spoken to him a couple of times and he seemed a decent sort of bloke. He doesn't know me nor I him.

Best way to overcome this when he returns is to play to the top of his game. Re-double his efforts to play well and that will silence the critics quicker than anything.