Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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Wintergreen
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:13 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wintergreen » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:36 pm

Hmm it's all a bit of a farce isn't it?

Undoubtably today will see a "we don't want to leave without a deal" result.

But what is the EU supposed to do? They have essentially said "here is our offer, take it or leave it".

What the MP's are saying is "We'd quite like a different offer".

All a delay to the Brexit date will do is push the problem further down the line. There is no way that the PM is going to get a majority on this without significant changes on the EU side, and they have indicated time and time again that they are unable/unwilling to do this.

So that leaves us in "no deal" territory which apparently no-one wants (we will see later today).

So the ONLY way forward as far as I can see it is

1. Leave on 29 March with no deal
2. Delay, with a 2nd referrendum which has 2 very simple options (unlike the first one which was full of lies, misinformation and half-truths). STAY IN OR LEAVE WITH NO DEAL.

If the result is leave with no deal, we do so immediately, without any further discussion.

If the result is stay in, we forget all about the last 2 years and put it down to experience.

fozzieskem
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:07 pm

I think people are beginning to see the first referendum was fatally flawed,it was far too complex a question than a simple yes or no,the benefits and the pitfalls have to be laid out to the country,not nonsense that was spouted shamefully from both sides last time out.

Of course if the Tories hasn’t rushed to invoke article 50 and taken its time to discuss with the EU a deal(I don’t think much would change but there you go)and then presented the country with facts,not the BS of last time and maybe in the form of a election go to the country and see how it would land,but no and now we see the folly of the rush to invoke.

Let’s not forget the referendum was only an advisory referendum,it was never law so time could have been taken but here we stand on the edge of lunacy held to account by a more mediocre parliament I can’t think of.

DaveO
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:22 pm

What they should have done after the vote in 2016 is to have gone off to the EU to negotiate a deal and then put the deal to a second vote of the people. Furthermore that should have been announced as the plan before the first vote (if the vote was to leave).

Jacobs Rees-Mogg was in favour of a confirming vote like this once the terms were known.

Rushing to invoke A50 just tied the government's hands by setting a ridiculously short deadline because despite what some may think just because you vote to leave doesn't just mean you can do it without complex negotiations, new laws and new treatise put in place. Anyone who thinks we can doesn't have a clue.

What made the subsequent negotiations even worse were T May's red lines.

The first was freedom of movement. She failed spectacularly as Home Sec is curb migration to the UK and blamed the EU when we get more migrants from outside of it. Still in her simple world ending F.O.M was a quick and dirty fix to halve it. Fat chance of that.

Next she wanted out from the jurisdiction of the ECJ which instantly removes you from having any legal basis for saying you comply with EU law on things like importing/exporting radioactive material (used in the medical profession), can fly planes over the EU all the way to banking services.

The other reason we are where we are is beyond her red lines her primary motive has ALWAYS been to keep the Tory party from splitting. So when she threw away her majority she was left beholden to the minority that are the ERG and also the religious fanatics that are the DUP. Which meant every time she came up with some sort of deal that met her read lines but didn't satisfy these hard brexit nutters she caved in to stop her government collapsing and the Tories splitting. Absolutely nothing at all to do with what is best for the country.

Wandering Warrior
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:20 pm

I've stated all along that the Tory party power struggle came before the country and this was all this pantomime was about.
The simplistic wording of the referendum was designed to make it not too difficult between the ears to decide, as most don't think about ramifications and this allowed folk to create a figment in their own minds of what Brexit mean't to them.
Of course BS was thrown in from both sides and nearly three years down the road we have made ourselves look a laughing stock aided and abetted by our elected representatives!
Somebody stated on here that the proper politicians had distanced themselves from it all, quite who they are I remain to be convinced!?
Furthermore somebody else has stated that we should have a GE to give the Government a mandate. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't that happen in 2017 with Terry May relying on a thumbs up from ten Paddy's with every move she makes?
Everybody knows what yes leave Europe means but nobody yet has quite nailed down how we jump off the cliff!!
There's still more twists in this scenario!
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

ancientnloyal
Posts: 13858
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:33 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by ancientnloyal » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:08 pm

Answers on a postcard to what happens tomorrow!
Started a Cycling Blog 👉🏻 https://cyclespeyk.blogspot.com have a read

fozzieskem
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:05 pm

No to a no deal Brexit under any circumstances..now the ever gormless May claims its not legally binding, the referendum wasn't either you stupid old bint..the sooner she goes the better.

ancientnloyal
Posts: 13858
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:33 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by ancientnloyal » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:18 pm

Image

Mrs May right now
Started a Cycling Blog 👉🏻 https://cyclespeyk.blogspot.com have a read

fozzieskem
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:59 pm

ancientnloyal wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:18 pm
Image

Mrs May right now
LOL,so very true.

Wandering Warrior
Posts: 3272
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:42 am

It's going to go through the HoC for a third time to try and get it through!
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

josie andrews
Posts: 24562
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:17 pm
Location: Wigan

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by josie andrews » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:29 am

Where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?

The whole lot of them need getting rid of MP’s & the Lords & starting again without all the bloody radicals! What a bloody farce?
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage.

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