So... will we beat Warrington?

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

Bateman was never replaced. Greenwood was meant to replace him but in reality ended up replacing Joel Tomkins after the whole 'rectum of Wigan' incident.

So Greenwood did replace bateman and we didn't replace Joel.... many fans on here didn't rate Joel so that should be fine

Fine!

So where or on whom was the Bateman transfer fee spent on?

Where did Joel's wages go? Considering he re-signed for less than he was on from Saracens, he was still considered a "senior" player so would not have been on peanuts or are you suggesting that?

How do you know he was paid less than he got at Saracens?

[DaveO]

It's much more about the coach and the players than it is IFL.

I can't see that. All I see is IFL cut costs last year, Wane resigned because he knew we were losing quality players and backroom staff. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

We lost Sam Tomkins, replaced with Hardaker, Bateman replaced with Greenwood and Sutton replaced with Bullock.
Bitcom went to Man City, we couldn't compete salary wise, Matty Peet went to Sale but has since returned, so the overall changes haven't been that big.
Wane left, which many on here wanted.

Bateman was not replaced by Greenwood. They both played a part in getting us to the GF and both played in it. Arguably the best second row pair in the competition at the time.

We went into this season with Greenwood and Faz playing on the wrong side for him, which was a change that also shows what we lost.

Hardaker and Tomkins are different players and just shows you can’t just slot in even players who are good players into roles they are not suited for.

With Bullock just because he’s a prop doesn’t mean he’s as good as Sutton and he isn’t. Good prospect and the fact he sometimes looks better than our other props is a sad reflection on them, not that he is as good as Sutton.

As to Bitcon, we may well have not been able to keep him but we just gave his job to other current employees. The club made no effort to go and find someone similar. Bitcon’s CV was impressive before he came to us so why we can’t go and look for a replacement similarly qualified I have no idea unless as many suspect it’s a cost saving.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Bullock, Hardaker, Sammutt and Greenwood as a collective is very nearly as good as Sutton, Bateman and the 2 Tomkinses. The only player we miss is Bateman, who had an X factor that could get the team out of a hole. Conditioning is a matter for the head coach. It is his responsibility to ensure his squad is fit. If the current guys aren’t up to scratch, as they work for Lam, he has to sort that out.

People seem to assume that IL’s job brief is to make the hard yards and tackle. He does not have a playing contract, as it happens. His primary responsibilities are:

- to finance the club. Anyone can read our accounts and see for themselves how much the club generates, how much IL puts in and how much the club pays its staff. Honestly, I find any accusation of his being tight fisted, when anyone can read the accounts, to be up there with not going to the moon, or the world being flat when it comes to well thought through arguments; and

- appoint coaches and other staff, of such quality as to allow us to win things. Again, anyone can check how many trophies we have won under his watch and compare them with the previous decade (they might focus on how well we did under Lindsay in the salary cap era). Anyone who then concludes that he has fallen short might want to get help before doing anything involving sums and counting in future,

The unique position in which we find ourselves on the coaching front is the major reason this year is a car crash. We ended up appointing an interim coach who is completely out of his depth. By the time we have lost the next 4 games, the club will have no choice but to put that right. The problem is a 3 letter word.

[josie andrews]

Bullock, Hardaker, Sammutt and Greenwood as a collective is very nearly as good as Sutton, Bateman and the 2 Tomkinses. The only player we miss is Bateman, who had an X factor that could get the team out of a hole. Conditioning is a matter for the head coach. It is his responsibility to ensure his squad is fit. If the current guys aren’t up to scratch, as they work for Lam, he has to sort that out.

People seem to assume that IL’s job brief is to make the hard yards and tackle. He does not have a playing contract, as it happens. His primary responsibilities are:

- to finance the club. Anyone can read our accounts and see for themselves how much the club generates, how much IL puts in and how much the club pays its staff. Honestly, I find any accusation of his being tight fisted, when anyone can read the accounts, to be up there with not going to the moon, or the world being flat when it comes to well thought through arguments; and

- appoint coaches and other staff, of such quality as to allow us to win things. Again, anyone can check how many trophies we have won under his watch and compare them with the previous decade (they might focus on how well we did under Lindsay in the salary cap era). Anyone who then concludes that he has fallen short might want to get help before doing anything involving sums and counting in future,

The unique position in which we find ourselves on the coaching front is the major reason this year is a car crash. We ended up appointing an interim coach who is completely out of his depth. By the time we have lost the next 4 games, the club will have no choice but to put that right. The problem is a 3 letter word.

You don't half spout some rubbish! And that's just being polite on this forum!

Lam isn't the conditioner! It's not his responsibility.

He doesn't recruit any players or back room staff, that is up to the board of Kris Radlinski & Mr Lenagan!

And they didn't replace one of the best conditioners, in Bitcon, with someone who has similar experience or qualifications!

As you commented on in your second paragraph in your referral to Mr Lenagan's responsibilities!

Stop the Lam bashing FFS

He's been led to the slaughter by the craziest piece of business in the whole of Mr Lenagan's tenure!

[medlocke]

Bullock, Hardaker, Sammutt and Greenwood as a collective is very nearly as good as Sutton, Bateman and the 2 Tomkinses. The only player we miss is Bateman, who had an X factor that could get the team out of a hole. Conditioning is a matter for the head coach. It is his responsibility to ensure his squad is fit. If the current guys aren’t up to scratch, as they work for Lam, he has to sort that out.

People seem to assume that IL’s job brief is to make the hard yards and tackle. He does not have a playing contract, as it happens. His primary responsibilities are:

- to finance the club. Anyone can read our accounts and see for themselves how much the club generates, how much IL puts in and how much the club pays its staff. Honestly, I find any accusation of his being tight fisted, when anyone can read the accounts, to be up there with not going to the moon, or the world being flat when it comes to well thought through arguments; and

- appoint coaches and other staff, of such quality as to allow us to win things. Again, anyone can check how many trophies we have won under his watch and compare them with the previous decade (they might focus on how well we did under Lindsay in the salary cap era). Anyone who then concludes that he has fallen short might want to get help before doing anything involving sums and counting in future,

The unique position in which we find ourselves on the coaching front is the major reason this year is a car crash. We ended up appointing an interim coach who is completely out of his depth. By the time we have lost the next 4 games, the club will have no choice but to put that right. The problem is a 3 letter word.

You don't half spout some rubbish! And that's just being polite on this forum!

Lam isn't the conditioner! It's not his responsibility.

He doesn't recruit any players or back room staff, that is up to the board of Kris Radlinski & Mr Lenagan!

And they didn't replace one of the best conditioners, in Bitcon, with someone who has similar experience or qualifications!

As you commented on in your second paragraph in your referral to Mr Lenagan's responsibilities!

Stop the Lam bashing FFS

He's been led to the slaughter by the craziest piece of business in the whole of Mr Lenagan's tenure!

Get him told Josie, Don't think it's fair to bash Lam until he's had a decent run with no injuries, If it is still bad after that then bash away but remember he ain't going nowhere till his contract is up, Lenagan don't sack anybody

[Exiled Wiganer]

I can see that people think Lam is a lovely man, and am happy to be proven wrong. On conditioning, if it’s of no interest to this coach how fit his team is, that’s a bad thing I would have thought. As to his squad, the players available to him are demonstrably good enough to be higher in the league. I am astonished that the view is that somehow everything is IL’s fault, and that we have a super coach. Maybe we should see how he does in the next 4 games and come back to the idea that he’s a great coach.

[josie andrews]

I can see that people think Lam is a lovely man, and am happy to be proven wrong. On conditioning, if it’s of no interest to this coach how fit his team is, that’s a bad thing I would have thought. As to his squad, the players available to him are demonstrably good enough to be higher in the league. I am astonished that the view is that somehow everything is IL’s fault, and that we have a super coach. Maybe we should see how he does in the next 4 games and come back to the idea that he’s a great coach.

Have I said it's Mr Lenagan's fault! The only thing is he is responsible for is recruiting competent staff & after Bitcon left he hasn't replaced him with a suitable fitness coach!

Of course the coach will be concerned about the fitness of the players but he isn't responsible for the staff who are supposed to be professionals at their job, which I feel they are lacking.

Lam can't employ better conditioning staff he can only make comment about the fitness to Rads & Mr Lenagan & if they can't see the difference in the fitness of the players compared to the last several seasons they aren't watching them train or play!

[Caboosegg]

I can see that people think Lam is a lovely man, and am happy to be proven wrong. On conditioning, if it’s of no interest to this coach how fit his team is, that’s a bad thing I would have thought. As to his squad, the players available to him are demonstrably good enough to be higher in the league. I am astonished that the view is that somehow everything is IL’s fault, and that we have a super coach. Maybe we should see how he does in the next 4 games and come back to the idea that he’s a great coach.

Have I said it's Mr Lenagan's fault! The only thing is he is responsible for is recruiting competent staff & after Bitcon left he hasn't replaced him with a suitable fitness coach!

Of course the coach will be concerned about the fitness of the players but he isn't responsible for the staff who are supposed to be professionals at their job, which I feel they are lacking.

Lam can't employ better conditioning staff he can only make comment about the fitness to Rads & Mr Lenagan & if they can't see the difference in the fitness of the players compared to the last several seasons they aren't watching them train or play!

But surely as the current one worked under bitcon the conditioning should be no worse that last year as we should still be using the same routines.

Doesnt look good for future development and keeping pace long term but to lose it in less than a season?

[nathan_rugby]

I can see that people think Lam is a lovely man, and am happy to be proven wrong. On conditioning, if it’s of no interest to this coach how fit his team is, that’s a bad thing I would have thought. As to his squad, the players available to him are demonstrably good enough to be higher in the league. I am astonished that the view is that somehow everything is IL’s fault, and that we have a super coach. Maybe we should see how he does in the next 4 games and come back to the idea that he’s a great coach.

Have I said it's Mr Lenagan's fault! The only thing is he is responsible for is recruiting competent staff & after Bitcon left he hasn't replaced him with a suitable fitness coach!

Of course the coach will be concerned about the fitness of the players but he isn't responsible for the staff who are supposed to be professionals at their job, which I feel they are lacking.

Lam can't employ better conditioning staff he can only make comment about the fitness to Rads & Mr Lenagan & if they can't see the difference in the fitness of the players compared to the last several seasons they aren't watching them train or play!

But surely as the current one worked under bitcon the conditioning should be no worse that last year as we should still be using the same routines.

Doesnt look good for future development and keeping pace long term but to lose it in less than a season?

If it’s as simple as an assistant replacing the main coach in what ever area then why do more people not do it ?

Oh yeah, it’s because it doesn’t work like that.

[Caboosegg]

Have I said it's Mr Lenagan's fault! The only thing is he is responsible for is recruiting competent staff & after Bitcon left he hasn't replaced him with a suitable fitness coach!

Of course the coach will be concerned about the fitness of the players but he isn't responsible for the staff who are supposed to be professionals at their job, which I feel they are lacking.

Lam can't employ better conditioning staff he can only make comment about the fitness to Rads & Mr Lenagan & if they can't see the difference in the fitness of the players compared to the last several seasons they aren't watching them train or play!

But surely as the current one worked under bitcon the conditioning should be no worse that last year as we should still be using the same routines.

Doesnt look good for future development and keeping pace long term but to lose it in less than a season?

If it’s as simple as an assistant replacing the main coach in what ever area then why do more people not do it ?

Oh yeah, it’s because it doesn’t work like that.

So do you think if winder took over short term he would not just revert back to wane style as its whats hes know for years?

People lay wanes first few success at madges door, well that cant be right unless wane as assistant was copying his style no?.

So you hire a PT he show you how to warm up a certain way and how to target a muscle group, they leave and a new PT takes over who was an assistant...will they not continue your routine until they can work on developing their own style?