Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Mike » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:27 pm

southernpie wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:48 am
SJ wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:34 am
I don't know what JRM has said except what I've been told to wit getting away from the fire is a matter of common sence. This corresponds to every instruction be it school,office or factory. Vacate the premises immediately leave belongings etc and proceed to the designated assembly point and await further instructions. is common sense. To be told to wait in harms way transgresses common sense or so it seems to me unless there are extenuating reasons for doing so
It is to do with the building design, high rise flats are built with each flat being completely compartmentalised (ie seperated by fire control measures from each other, concrete floors and ceilings etc.) so a fire within one flat will be contained inside that flat. The weak points are the flat external door and windows which have a minimum of one hour fire protection. If a fire burns through the window, because of the design of the walls there is nothing else to burn so stops going any further, the front door is higher protection but opens onto a lobby which will have fire protection doors on all other flats and onto the staircase. Also this is why so many high rise staircases are bare walls and no adornments are allowed (no fuel for the fire).
Therefore if all fire doors are shut the fire can not get very far. Occupants therefore staying in their flat are in a safe place for a considerable amount of time. This then keeps all the staircases and lobbys free for the firefighters to get themselves and their required equipment to the correct place unhindered and the fire would be dealt with in suitable time to prevent danger to anyone else.
In my time in the fire service I attended several flat "fires" in Manchester, where someone came home from work to find their flat gutted by fire and the fire had gone out as the protections had worked that well no-one noticed the fire.
Unfortunately there has been a "relaxation" of building control measures, which unbeknownst to the fire services around the country, allowed a pretty looking cladding to be applied to the external walls. This cladding was in fact highly flammable so when the fire came through the window at Grenfall it quickly spread to other flats.
All the fire brigade standard procedures went belly up when something that wasn't supposed to happen, did in fact happen. The London Fire Service have been castigated for not training for this scenario, but my answer is "Do they also train for when Martians land in Piccadilly" the idea of what happened was just as far fetched.
So the answer is at most premises the fire brigades instruction is to get out and stay out, but in a block of residential flats the normal course of instruction is stay inside and shut all doors.
Good info sp.

For SJ - JRM was saying he'd have left *despite* the advice of the fire service. I.e. he's saying that you should ignore advice given to you at the scene of an emergency by the emergency services because your common sense is better information. Whats more is that he's implying very strongly that he thinks because the people in the tower did not ignore the fire service's advice, they are partially at fault for their own deaths. Very, very dodgy statements and implications for a recently "senior" politician to make. Just goes to show how inexperienced JRM actually is. He's only recently come to the forefront of politics and this remark was really wrong on many levels regardless of which end of the political spectrum it came from.

SJ
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:24 pm

I agree with you regarding ignoring emergency Services advice Jrm was wrong to suggest otherwise. Ironically on this occasion If they had ignored the advice and possibly followed their gut feelings or common Sense they may have survived. The more significant mistake made wasn't JRM 's retrospective comments but the authority's giving the wrong advice and the circumstances leading to the Firemen giving the advice they gave.

I don't think people should try to use this tragedy as a political football. It's disrespectful to the people who lost their lives and loved ones.

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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wintergreen » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:55 pm

You have to laugh at some comments on here.

1. The Tories are only interested in the "Elites" and keeping the "Establishment" in power....

2. Brexiters claim that the "Elite" and the "Establishment" want to keep us in the EU

3. But the Tories are the only party who, if elected, will leave the EU without question.


How does that work then........... :lol: :lol:

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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Caboosegg » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:09 pm

SJ wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:24 pm
I agree with you regarding ignoring emergency Services advice Jrm was wrong to suggest otherwise. Ironically on this occasion If they had ignored the advice and possibly followed their gut feelings or common Sense they may have survived. The more significant mistake made wasn't JRM 's retrospective comments but the authority's giving the wrong advice and the circumstances leading to the Firemen giving the advice they gave.

I don't think people should try to use this tragedy as a political football. It's disrespectful to the people who lost their lives and loved ones.
SJ common sense in an emergency situation is to listen to the advise given by those with training and understanding. JRM comments are indefensible.. however it isnt actually JRM who i find disgusting im this situation, he has just shown what everyone new he was.

Its the doubling down from another MP that annoyed me the most.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co ... 47981/amp/
RL's biggest issue is the constant negativity of its own fans.

support verb [ (ENCOURAGE)

"to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want him, her, or it to succeed"

Caboosegg
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Caboosegg » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:14 pm

Wintergreen wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:55 pm
You have to laugh at some comments on here.

1. The Tories are only interested in the "Elites" and keeping the "Establishment" in power....

2. Brexiters claim that the "Elite" and the "Establishment" want to keep us in the EU

3. But the Tories are the only party who, if elected, will leave the EU without question.


How does that work then........... :lol: :lol:
Because brexiteers are fed up of facts and experts........

Lets be honest the only MPs interested in brexit are the ones who will gain from it politically or financially.

No one who gave a damn about other people can honestly believe its a good idea???? Surely!!

I mean come on even Farage is against Boris's version of brexit..... but all leavers know its leave whatever happened deal or no deal???

However it's dragged on and needs to be done with. I just hope that if we do leave that if it all goes to pot. Leave voters give their jobs up to remain voters 😉
RL's biggest issue is the constant negativity of its own fans.

support verb [ (ENCOURAGE)

"to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want him, her, or it to succeed"

SJ
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:19 pm

Wintergreen wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:55 pm
You have to laugh at some comments on here.

1. The Tories are only interested in the "Elites" and keeping the "Establishment" in power....

2. Brexiters claim that the "Elite" and the "Establishment" want to keep us in the EU

3. But the Tories are the only party who, if elected, will leave the EU without question.


How does that work then........... :lol: :lol:
Good question WR. Can't answer it🤓You'd have to be similarly illogical 😄😊

Caboosegg
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Caboosegg » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:46 am

RL's biggest issue is the constant negativity of its own fans.

support verb [ (ENCOURAGE)

"to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want him, her, or it to succeed"

fozzieskem
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:20 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:46 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50317404

Oh Boris...
More lies I take it

Listening on the vine show to some moronic Tory trying yell to us that austerity has worked it hasn’t of course as we owe more now but the right wing rags will lap it up borrowing more Jesus wept .

Then we come to labour spending plans..hells tenth who came up with them,a kid with crayons?

Caboosegg
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Caboosegg » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:04 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:20 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:46 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50317404

Oh Boris...
More lies I take it

Listening on the vine show to some moronic Tory trying yell to us that austerity has worked it hasn’t of course as we owe more now but the right wing rags will lap it up borrowing more Jesus wept .

Then we come to labour spending plans..hells tenth who came up with them,a kid with crayons?
I would read up a bit more around the spending plans. They have been touted with a buyout percentage to nationalise.

Not saying i agree they are workable only the the figures have been inflated by the conservs.
RL's biggest issue is the constant negativity of its own fans.

support verb [ (ENCOURAGE)

"to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want him, her, or it to succeed"

fozzieskem
Posts: 3173
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:05 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:04 pm
fozzieskem wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:20 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:46 am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50317404

Oh Boris...
More lies I take it

Listening on the vine show to some moronic Tory trying yell to us that austerity has worked it hasn’t of course as we owe more now but the right wing rags will lap it up borrowing more Jesus wept .

Then we come to labour spending plans..hells tenth who came up with them,a kid with crayons?
I would read up a bit more around the spending plans. They have been touted with a buyout percentage to nationalise.

Not saying i agree they are workable only the the figures have been inflated by the conservs.
Any building built by the government becomes an asset of course till they decide to sell it but Labours are nonsense you can’t spend that amount in such a short time,not saying it doesn’t need to be spent but do it in a time frame that’s not fantasy

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