Harry Smith

[Bobby-WRL]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Sam Tomkins said in an interview that Tommy L has the best rugby brain out of anyone he has played with and backed him to be an outstanding coach.

[nathan_rugby]

Watching Harry's body language and expressions, I'd say he's an introvert. If so, he could be internalising his mistakes and this may have a big effect on his play, resulting in things like kicking out on the full.

I've said before, he's not like Andy Greg or Luke Gale who strutted around and dominated team-mates.

If I'm right, the question is, does this mean he's a failure, or just that he needs handling differently by the coaches? Taking goal-kicking responsibility off him for instance might be away of realeasing some of the pressure he puts himself under. Having a half-back partner to shoulder some responsibility could be another, or getting a mentor who understands the way he thinks and can talk him through some of his concerns.

The lad has ability, a fantastic kicking game - long, high and short - and a good rugby brain. He's gone through the mill under Lam and with all the injuries and changes we've been through. I think we should cut him some slack. Good halves are hard to come by.

Going to be an unpopular opinion but I genuinely don’t think he does.

[Barney841]

I’m not sure if he’s up to it either.
I’d be definitively be on a lookout for a half if one came available

[Gerrumonside]

Each to their own I guess - for me he does he just needs another good half alongside him to share the burden.

[Blackpool_Pie]

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Sam Tomkins said in an interview that Tommy L has the best rugby brain out of anyone he has played with and backed him to be an outstanding coach.

What would he know compared to the experts on here though?

[Wes]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Lots of factory workers progress from working as part of a team on the shop floor to then becoming a team manager.

Same in sales.

Same in marketing.

Same in NHS.

Same in Forces.

Same in police.

Strange that?

Personally think the analogy is fine.

[the pieman]

I suppose the other question in how do we expect him to develop when he has been around the same set of coaches since youth?

As we stated before there are no fresh outlooks or approaches coming into wigan as they recycle through an existing coach/player set up. George Williams only really looked like his game moved on when he left Wigan

That's not factually stating Wigan cant develop him, but what is anyone going to tell him/show him they haven't already

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Completely disagree, its a poor analagy in your eyes cos it doesnt fit the narrative, and also cut off the remainder of my comment which was a genuine question about coaching skills / development etc

Many people will move from one role into another, could be promotion, may not be

i did it myself as i have many interchangeable skills and the hiring manager saw that in me. I went from a people management role in logistics into a consultancy role implementing IT systems. Completely different, but certainly a promotion, so as above completely disagree with you

SoL i am pretty certain was coaching the academy and TL was also assistant with NZ, so again, your narrative doesnt fit

[the pieman]

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Lots of factory workers progress from working as part of a team on the shop floor to then becoming a team manager.

Same in sales.

Same in marketing.

Same in NHS.

Same in Forces.

Same in police.

Strange that?

Personally think the analogy is fine.

hadnt got this far Wes, when i have replied to DaveO. Basically you've covered off some of my response too .

[nathan_rugby]

thats a fair point, and not one anyone else has made thus far in terms of his development, with the same coaching setup

i dont buy into the often Jobs for the Boys analagy used on here, as many major corporations will promote from within.

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Completely disagree, its a poor analagy in your eyes cos it doesnt fit the narrative, and also cut off the remainder of my comment which was a genuine question about coaching skills / development etc

Many people will move from one role into another, could be promotion, may not be

i did it myself as i have many interchangeable skills and the hiring manager saw that in me. I went from a people management role in logistics into a consultancy role implementing IT systems. Completely different, but certainly a promotion, so as above completely disagree with you

SoL i am pretty certain was coaching the academy and TL was also assistant with NZ, so again, your narrative doesnt fit

Is that all it takes to become an assistant at Wigan? A few years coaching an academy or a stint with NZ?

I could understand if we had a young coach with experienced assistants or visa versa but we only have young and inexperienced. It isn't black and white but where else do you see such inexperience / varied experience leading to success?

BTW Cunningham was assistant for a couple of years at St Helens and then promoted to first team, look how that turned out.

[Flash]

Poor analogy. Giving a player a first team coaching role as soon as he hangs up his boots is not a promotion. It’s giving them a totally different job.

TL and Lockers went from players to assistant first team coaches. They weren’t “promoted” as in they were not doing some junior coaching roles for a few years after stopping playing and were then given a first team assistants role because they showed aptitude for being a coach. They went straight into a first team coaching role. Jobs for the boys it is.

Completely disagree, its a poor analagy in your eyes cos it doesnt fit the narrative, and also cut off the remainder of my comment which was a genuine question about coaching skills / development etc

Many people will move from one role into another, could be promotion, may not be

i did it myself as i have many interchangeable skills and the hiring manager saw that in me. I went from a people management role in logistics into a consultancy role implementing IT systems. Completely different, but certainly a promotion, so as above completely disagree with you

SoL i am pretty certain was coaching the academy and TL was also assistant with NZ, so again, your narrative doesnt fit

Is that all it takes to become an assistant at Wigan? A few years coaching an academy or a stint with NZ?

I could understand if we had a young coach with experienced assistants or visa versa but we only have young and inexperienced. It isn't black and white but where else do you see such inexperience / varied experience leading to success?

BTW Cunningham was assistant for a couple of years at St Helens and then promoted to first team, look how that turned out.

As was multi trophy winning Shaun Wane. As indeed was Craig Bellamy. You can't just cherry pick an example to fit your narrative.