Harry Smith

[fozzieskem]

For me Smiths best season came last year he looked at last to be the player we saw in his younger days but this season he's gone backwards they need to take the kicking off him to allow him to play his game without that pressure on him,something has changed and for the worse with him.

[moto748]

I don't think taking the kicking off him is a bad idea, but I think the lack of a settled halves partner is the biggest factor.

[EagleEyePie]

His form early in the season was really good. He was having a big impact on our performances and was up near the top of the try assists charts right from the off. He'd have been a good bet for player of the season if he'd maintained that form. He had something like 3 tries and 10 assists in his first 8 games, followed by 0 tries and 4 assists in the next 7 (starting from the Wire away game).
I don't think it's a coincidence that once we suffered injuries his form seemed to dip too. Without a strong pack it's much harder for a halfback to make a difference and then when you start changing the other half it's bound to unsettle you.

I know some people think in the modern game it's more about how halves link with the players on their side of the field more than with each other but ultimately a lot of our attack involves moving the ball through both halves and if the timing is off it can make a big impact.

[jobo]

His form early in the season was really good. He was having a big impact on our performances and was up near the top of the try assists charts right from the off. He'd have been a good bet for player of the season if he'd maintained that form. He had something like 3 tries and 10 assists in his first 8 games, followed by 0 tries and 4 assists in the next 7 (starting from the Wire away game).
I don't think it's a coincidence that once we suffered injuries his form seemed to dip too. Without a strong pack it's much harder for a halfback to make a difference and then when you start changing the other half it's bound to unsettle you.

I know some people think in the modern game it's more about how halves link with the players on their side of the field more than with each other but ultimately a lot of our attack involves moving the ball through both halves and if the timing is off it can make a big impact.

You make a good point about timing. It's definitely been well off in the past few games. Not saying it's the only thing going wrong but it is something that can only be put right with constant drill.

Don't know either how these things work with the present coaching team but one thing I do know is that under Maguire, training went on and on until everything was done correctly.

[nathan_rugby]

Which he has Meds. He was training to be a coach & qualify for his badges while we were at Orrell for Academy games.

Anyway, this topic is supposed to be about Harry Smith not about Sol or Tommy’s coaching qualifications! Which I know you will say that it’s the coaching of Smith that we are discussing. Only Tommy qualifies as a possible kicking coach as Lockers is supposedly defensive coach.

Surely you can admit Lockers experience as a coach isn’t normally what would warrant getting an assistant job at Wigan?

God help us on the Tommy point.

[Wigan_forever1985]

For me on the coaching the problem is they were guaranteed roles in the coaching setup while they were still playing - and on merit how are SOL and TL going to bring new ideas to the club

That’s the issue - that inbred nepotism will hurt the youth players especially with wane being England coach

Really there has been no external ideas coming into wigan since maguire - apart from the brief briers stint which saw a massive upturn in our overall performance to the eye on field

I’ve discounted lam as his tenure was strange it’s it’s really unclear how much control/input he actually had while in post - all we do know is his leigh team are above us in the league and look nothing like his wigan team which is of supposed greater standard

There’s no suprise that when kfc was in control of saints they weren’t the same team they got shut of all the old boys club and they dominated - for years - they age now put back in the old boys club and this year have looked very jaded and beatable

Sport is ruthless and Wigan aren’t - that’s the long and short of it

[Flash]

Which he has Meds. He was training to be a coach & qualify for his badges while we were at Orrell for Academy games.

Anyway, this topic is supposed to be about Harry Smith not about Sol or Tommy’s coaching qualifications! Which I know you will say that it’s the coaching of Smith that we are discussing. Only Tommy qualifies as a possible kicking coach as Lockers is supposedly defensive coach.

Surely you can admit Lockers experience as a coach isn’t normally what would warrant getting an assistant job at Wigan?

God help us on the Tommy point.

Possibly not if he'd come in with no other experience around him. However he took the role of joint assistant coach alongside the very experienced Briers. No one knew at that time that Briers would only last a year.

Lockers now has his junior coaching role plus a year as assistant under his belt. Is that ideal? Possibly not. However, whether it is "enough" will only be revealed at the end of the season. If he goes into next season as a trophy winning assistant then we can safely say that it was.

I will freely admit that TL is a slightly different matter as he was taken on without a "Briers" to offer that extra experience. That said, he has always been highly regarded as having one of the best rugby brains in the game. Again, we won't really know whether it was foresight in wrapping up a potentially excellent coach or going too early until the season has finished.

I do know, however, that had we let him go elsewhere and he'd ripped it up the same people now complaining would be pointing the finger about that too.

[culinator]

This isnt really a criticism more of a curiosity and not really about Smith but seemed the most appropriate place.
Early in the season, Smith was kicking a lot on the 3rd and 4th, at first i didnt like it but then i could see that it caused the opposition wingers to fall back earlier and helped us find gaps.
That tactic seems to have disappeared now, have the opposition become wise to it or was it deemed not to be working?

Wondering what others think

[Flash]

This isnt really a criticism more of a curiosity and not really about Smith but seemed the most appropriate place.
Early in the season, Smith was kicking a lot on the 3rd and 4th, at first i didnt like it but then i could see that it caused the opposition wingers to fall back earlier and helped us find gaps.
That tactic seems to have disappeared now, have the opposition become wise to it or was it deemed not to be working?

Wondering what others think

Kicking early can be a good tactic when the team is playing well in other areas of the game. Unfortunately the error count at the moment is horrendous and we have precious little possession as it is without turning the ball over early in this way too. Good completion and quick line speed and kick chase and it's worthwhile. We need to concentrate on actually completing our sets at the moment though.

[southportcdm]

I always assumed that kicking 'early', when combined with a good kick chase, was the best way for an underpowered pack to cope with a larger and less mobile pack. We used it well at times early in the season. With our present injuries our pack just isn't up to the job. We need to make sure that next season our pack can cope even if we're unlucky enough to lose two front line props for an extended period. Our present squad has five 'frontline' props but only two (Cooper, Havard) possibly three (if you include Ellis) are playing well enough. We need a squad with five good props plus a couple of youngsters to fill in when required. Six would be better but probably unrealistic with a salary cap. If we retain Havard, Cooper and Ellis (if his form is maintained) we need two more in addition to Walters who would cover the backrow as well. I think that's the best we can hope for and that's still risky because it assumes that Cooper will make a full recovery. I'm worried that we'll just settle for Walters plus a replacement for Mago.