Sticky plaster Over A Gaping Wound

[morley pie eater]

Hi Bob
I'm not wanting to start an argument, as your post is an eloquent summary of your feelings of frustration about the team. Once you put that down in writing and publicise it, it is open to scrutiny by others. So I have a couple of questions for starters:

1. What do you mean by "for years"? The last 5 or the last 10 or since 1996? It's crucial to know this so we can examine if it's true, or if it's just the way you feel.

2. Specifically which other teams do you think have "kicked on" in that time frame?

Without knowing the answers to the above, your claims are too vague to have any real meaning, other than that's how you feel.

Cheers,

Morley

You said it Morley your post is open to "scrutiny that is,amongst other things , critical examination thus rendering your comments on Bobs opinions, not claims,oxymoronic. His opinions are not, by any stretch of imagination, vague at all and indeed have real meaning as you realise by y your qualification "...other than how you feel ie opinion those being the whole point and purpose of his post in fact is shared by many on this forum including me. Accept is post for what it is his opinions well stated. Cheers

Thanks Archiekeith I particularly thought the opening comment of "I'm not wanting to start an argument" had an element of irony. I also thought the direct response on a fans forum was a tad personal. So I figured best not to comment And if this is the way I get treated when airing my opinions, then I'll probably not go on this site in the future.

Ok fellas. Have it your way.

I happen to be the kind of person who "means what he says and says what he means." But since you are both able to read something else into my post, have it your way.

[morley pie eater]

So in summary

Booo out with Peet
Down with IL
Down with KR
Haven't won anything in years
Boooo
Club never do anything right
Should be like the golden Era
Cap no excuse
I know better than the coach
It's all Powells fault


Go on meds you can delete this one as antagonising some posters

Yes, strange how we've not improved as predicted since Powell was dropped. It goes all the way back to Matty Smith, possibly further. Find a scapegoat, when he's gone, find another.

I also think you're spot on to include the "golden era" aka "Wigan standard". Critical thinking might suggest it was an exceptional time, never to be repeated, but the hard-of-understanding could never allow admission to such a thought.

[southportcdm]

Making good signings is clearly one of the most important (and difficult?) tasks for any successful club and many top football clubs employ somebody other than the coach, owner, or CEO to do the job. If these people don't get it right, they're moved on. I know that rugby league lives in a different financial world but I do wonder if we should look at employing an expert who can regularly pick the correct signing. There must be people out there who can make the correct choice 80/90% of the time. If necessary, the coach could be allowed some input once suitable players have been identified. This setup would have the added bonus of taking the pressure off I.L. and K.R. who should really be concentrating on other aspects of running the club. I can't believe that there are not plenty of props available (if not in the U.K.) for the money that we're prepared to pay who are considerably better than Mago, Singleton etc. We should be signing good props much more regularly that we have done recently. I know Cooper was a good signing but he really fell into our lap due to circumstances and he wasn't much of a risk. It looks like we'll not be signing Thompson but only because he doesn't want to come. I'd have been far more confident if we'd said that we'd pulled out due to the cost and his injury record. We're only a couple of good signings away from having a really good squad next season. It's really painful when we're so close but you just know that when we face a good pack in a big game we'll not be up to the job. More painful still is the knowledge that the standard in SL isn't that high and it doesn't take a great team to win it.

[Mike]

I'll not be deciding whether we've "gone backwards this season" until the end of the season TBH. I don't believe its possible to run through a season without a dip in form, and we've picked a good time for it. From now until the end of the year is when we need to start picking up, ideally peaking for the GF.

Last year I was disappointed, I thought we'd underperformed TBH, mainly due to the very poor end to the year. I'm hoping Peet has learned from this and is fousing on the GF this time out.

BTW Saints are pretty average this season - their "aura" is gone IMO (if they ever had one it was more to do with lucky bounces of the ball than some sort of invincibility) and they're there for the taking by us, Leigh and anyone in decent form.

[josie andrews]

Making good signings is clearly one of the most important (and difficult?) tasks for any successful club and many top football clubs employ somebody other than the coach, owner, or CEO to do the job. If these people don't get it right, they're moved on. I know that rugby league lives in a different financial world but I do wonder if we should look at employing an expert who can regularly pick the correct signing. There must be people out there who can make the correct choice 80/90% of the time. If necessary, the coach could be allowed some input once suitable players have been identified. This setup would have the added bonus of taking the pressure off I.L. and K.R. who should really be concentrating on other aspects of running the club. I can't believe that there are not plenty of props available (if not in the U.K.) for the money that we're prepared to pay who are considerably better than Mago, Singleton etc. We should be signing good props much more regularly that we have done recently. I know Cooper was a good signing but he really fell into our lap due to circumstances and he wasn't much of a risk. It looks like we'll not be signing Thompson but only because he doesn't want to come. I'd have been far more confident if we'd said that we'd pulled out due to the cost and his injury record. We're only a couple of good signings away from having a really good squad next season. It's really painful when we're so close but you just know that when we face a good pack in a big game we'll not be up to the job. More painful still is the knowledge that the standard in SL isn't that high and it doesn't take a great team to win it.

That is an excellent point

[Flash]

Hi Bob
I'm not wanting to start an argument, as your post is an eloquent summary of your feelings of frustration about the team. Once you put that down in writing and publicise it, it is open to scrutiny by others. So I have a couple of questions for starters:

1. What do you mean by "for years"? The last 5 or the last 10 or since 1996? It's crucial to know this so we can examine if it's true, or if it's just the way you feel.

2. Specifically which other teams do you think have "kicked on" in that time frame?

Without knowing the answers to the above, your claims are too vague to have any real meaning, other than that's how you feel.

Cheers,

Morley

You said it Morley your post is open to "scrutiny that is,amongst other things , critical examination thus rendering your comments on Bobs opinions, not claims,oxymoronic. His opinions are not, by any stretch of imagination, vague at all and indeed have real meaning as you realise by y your qualification "...other than how you feel ie opinion those being the whole point and purpose of his post in fact is shared by many on this forum including me. Accept is post for what it is his opinions well stated. Cheers

Thanks Archiekeith I particularly thought the opening comment of "I'm not wanting to start an argument" had an element of irony. I also thought the direct response on a fans forum was a tad personal. So I figured best not to comment And if this is the way I get treated when airing my opinions, then I'll probably not go on this site in the future.

Utterly ridiculous post! You're on an open internet forum..do you think your posts are so precious that they shouldn't be challenged? By all means have your say but expect people to pick up on it if they think differently. Same for you ArchieKeith. Grow up the pair of you!

As for your comment on Lockers being the defensive coach and it not working out; well he was the defensive coach last year when we had the meanest defence in the competition! Of course that doesn't fit your narrative so let's ignore that shall we?

[archiekeith]

You said it Morley your post is open to "scrutiny that is,amongst other things , critical examination thus rendering your comments on Bobs opinions, not claims,oxymoronic. His opinions are not, by any stretch of imagination, vague at all and indeed have real meaning as you realise by y your qualification "...other than how you feel ie opinion those being the whole point and purpose of his post in fact is shared by many on this forum including me. Accept is post for what it is his opinions well stated. Cheers

Thanks Archiekeith I particularly thought the opening comment of "I'm not wanting to start an argument" had an element of irony. I also thought the direct response on a fans forum was a tad personal. So I figured best not to comment And if this is the way I get treated when airing my opinions, then I'll probably not go on this site in the future.

Utterly ridiculous post! You're on an open internet forum..do you think your posts are so precious that they shouldn't be challenged? By all means have your say but expect people to pick up on it if they think differently. Same for you ArchieKeith. Grow up the pair of you!

As for your comment on Lockers being the defensive coach and it not working out; well he was the defensive coach last year when we had the meanest defence in the competition! Of course that doesn't fit your narrative so let's ignore that shall we?

I'm 78 I think that's "grown up. Don't you?
My post is about opinions. Bob gave a clear and concise opinion. It was entirely subjective that is not objective. The only objective fact is that he expressed a subjective opinion. Ie what he thought/ believed! Morley knows that and expresses that he knows that in his post. Other posters can disagree. Of course they can it as you say a forum for different opinions subjective or objective. As I said in my post toMorley accept Bob's post for what Morley in fact does as an elequently post of Bob's feelings/ opinion a judgement based on Bob's observations over an extended time. I for one don't expect a person to give an autobiographical explanation of how he came to make the judgement he did in his subjective opinion. I hope Bob continues to subscribe to our forum because his opinions would be of interest to me whether I agreed with them or not

[Flash]

Thanks Archiekeith I particularly thought the opening comment of "I'm not wanting to start an argument" had an element of irony. I also thought the direct response on a fans forum was a tad personal. So I figured best not to comment And if this is the way I get treated when airing my opinions, then I'll probably not go on this site in the future.

Utterly ridiculous post! You're on an open internet forum..do you think your posts are so precious that they shouldn't be challenged? By all means have your say but expect people to pick up on it if they think differently. Same for you ArchieKeith. Grow up the pair of you!

As for your comment on Lockers being the defensive coach and it not working out; well he was the defensive coach last year when we had the meanest defence in the competition! Of course that doesn't fit your narrative so let's ignore that shall we?

I'm 78 I think that's "grown up. Don't you?
My post is about opinions. Bob gave a clear and concise opinion. It was entirely subjective that is not objective. The only objective fact is that he expressed a subjective opinion. Ie what he thought/ believed! Morley knows that and expresses that he knows that in his post. Other posters can disagree. Of course they can it as you say a forum for different opinions subjective or objective. As I said in my post toMorley accept Bob's post for what Morley in fact does as an elequently post of Bob's feelings/ opinion a judgement based on Bob's observations over an extended time. I for one don't expect a person to give an autobiographical explanation of how he came to make the judgement he did in his subjective opinion. I hope Bob continues to subscribe to our forum because his opinions would be of interest to me whether I agreed with them or not

There's more to acting grown up than quoting a number! Objecting to someone questioning a post on the grounds that "it's his opinion" (sic) is what's childish. Opinions are there to be challenged. If Bob doesn't want them challenged the solution is blindingly obvious. Don't post them! If he chooses to, then expect that not everyone will agree. That's the nature of a forum. Check out the definition of the word if you're still in any doubt.

Anyway, I'll say no more on the subject. At least until the next time someone objects to having their opinion questioned.

[NICKYKISS]

I'll not be deciding whether we've "gone backwards this season" until the end of the season TBH. I don't believe its possible to run through a season without a dip in form, and we've picked a good time for it. From now until the end of the year is when we need to start picking up, ideally peaking for the GF.

Last year I was disappointed, I thought we'd underperformed TBH, mainly due to the very poor end to the year. I'm hoping Peet has learned from this and is fousing on the GF this time out.

BTW Saints are pretty average this season - their "aura" is gone IMO (if they ever had one it was more to do with lucky bounces of the ball than some sort of invincibility) and they're there for the taking by us, Leigh and anyone in decent form.

Sad thing is, Saints have been less than average by their standards, yet if they beat Catalans tomorrow, I’d have them as favourites for another LLS. That really is a sad indictment of the league as a whole and how none of the teams seem capable of really blowing their dominance away. They’ve won 4 titles on the trot and in the weekly rounds, they were dominant in the season before that, so In 5 years, not one of the clubs has managed to build their teams sufficiently to knock them off their perch.

[Bobby-WRL]

Matt P inherited this team & he is 18 months in.

1 - We have arguably the two best full backs in the league (granted we need to pick one and stick with it)
6- They are clearly working on this
7- Settled Scrum Half for the foreseeable & future captain IMO
9- Sorted as we know
13 - Smithies

It is only a 6 where we can say we have an unsettled spine.

I think we can win it this year but I’m certain next year after the signings are announced we will all feel in a much better place. We are going in the right direction.

I agree that 2 into 1 (did you see what I did there with fullback) is an issue and Peet needs to make his mind up. What exactly are they doing about 6 (imo the most important position) because all I can see is a complete and utter dog's dinner of it from Chairman to coach. 9 still worries me. Golden boy stays playing and O'Neil leaves could be a horrible scenario. For me Smithies will never be a quality loose forward. Needs bulking up and primed for Prop forward. He certainly has the attitude for it. Also, since when did a great player become (without time in office) a great coach. What experience at top level does Lockers and Tommy have? Isn't Lockers our defence coach? Well that's not working out too well this season is it? Finally, if Powell (please) retires, where do you think he will end up? Yep, on the coaching staff. God help us then.

Just to add to this thread and it’s been mentioned before.
Wigan were advanced with Brody Croft and then Williams decided to come back so the plan changed , GW didn’t give them any inkling he wasn’t coming until later in the day so we ended up with Cust at the last minute.
Cust showed promising signs last year and is under contract for this year . So in regards to what Ive just written I don’t understand how they are failing massively. The posts on here are hysterical.