Positions

[Flash]

Flash definitely wins the argument hands down. Kelvin Skerret, prop and superman impersonator. Game over.

I thank you!

[morley pie eater]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

I deliberately chose players who had excelled in multiple positions internationally to show it's possible even at the highest level. I then said that superleague is several levels below this. If you want examples of players who have changed positions at SL level and who were good SL level players that list would be equally long:

Kallum Watkins - SL centre and back rower.
Johnny Lomax - SL fullback and Half (also played both at international level)
Beven French - SL wing and Fullback
Jack Welsby - SL fullback and stand off.
Sam Tomkins - SL fullback and stand off (also played internationally in both positions)
KPP - SL back rower and centre and last night's MOM.
George Williams - SL hooker and half
Arthur Morgue - SL stand off, scrum half and Fullback

I could go on as I've barely scratched the surface there. I could also show examples from recent history, such as Ben Westwood - SL centre and back rower or Trent Barrett - SL and NRL stand off and loose etc to illustrate how this has always been the case.

The bottom line is you don't have to be Ellery Hanley to prosper in multiple positions. It merely dictates which level you can do this at. At SL level, all of the above and many more beside, fulfil those multiple roles to a good standard.

Well said. And to quote Medlocke "the end"

[nathan_rugby]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

I deliberately chose players who had excelled in multiple positions internationally to show it's possible even at the highest level. I then said that superleague is several levels below this. If you want examples of players who have changed positions at SL level and who were good SL level players that list would be equally long:

Kallum Watkins - SL centre and back rower.
Johnny Lomax - SL fullback and Half (also played both at international level)
Beven French - SL wing and Fullback
Jack Welsby - SL fullback and stand off.
Sam Tomkins - SL fullback and stand off (also played internationally in both positions)
KPP - SL back rower and centre and last night's MOM.
George Williams - SL hooker and half
Arthur Morgue - SL stand off, scrum half and Fullback

I could go on as I've barely scratched the surface there. I could also show examples from recent history, such as Ben Westwood - SL centre and back rower or Trent Barrett - SL and NRL stand off and loose etc to illustrate how this has always been the case.

The bottom line is you don't have to be Ellery Hanley to prosper in multiple positions. It merely dictates which level you can do this at. At SL level, all of the above and many more beside, fulfil those multiple roles to a good standard.

Good examples but not the same as randomly plucking suggestions out of thin air in positions that are not transferable.

[PJC]

I noticed that Jai Field packed down and Liam Byrne was at stand off at one point on Friday. To go against today’s one player fits several positions I would prefer to see a specialist in one position. Andy Gregory was an outstanding scrum half, George Carmont a specialist centre. I think it makes the game more interesting.
However I admit that this wouldn’t fit today’s game. Defences and speed of play are very different today and it isn’t what coaches would want.

[Flash]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

I deliberately chose players who had excelled in multiple positions internationally to show it's possible even at the highest level. I then said that superleague is several levels below this. If you want examples of players who have changed positions at SL level and who were good SL level players that list would be equally long:

Kallum Watkins - SL centre and back rower.
Johnny Lomax - SL fullback and Half (also played both at international level)
Beven French - SL wing and Fullback
Jack Welsby - SL fullback and stand off.
Sam Tomkins - SL fullback and stand off (also played internationally in both positions)
KPP - SL back rower and centre and last night's MOM.
George Williams - SL hooker and half
Arthur Morgue - SL stand off, scrum half and Fullback

I could go on as I've barely scratched the surface there. I could also show examples from recent history, such as Ben Westwood - SL centre and back rower or Trent Barrett - SL and NRL stand off and loose etc to illustrate how this has always been the case.

The bottom line is you don't have to be Ellery Hanley to prosper in multiple positions. It merely dictates which level you can do this at. At SL level, all of the above and many more beside, fulfil those multiple roles to a good standard.

Good examples but not the same as randomly plucking suggestions out of thin air in positions that are not transferable.

Absolutely. I certainly wouldn't want Trent Barrett at prop even if he'd probably make a good fist if it! Equally, changes shouldn't be dismissed if the players skill set seems appropriate.

[DaveO]

Just off the top of my head:
Hanley - Top class winger, stand off and loose.
Lockyer - Top class Fullback and stand off.
Tomkins - Top class Fullback and stand off.
Peacock - Top class 2nd row and Prop
Fittler - Top class stand off and loose.
Platt - Top class 2nd row and Prop.
Inglis - Top class Centre and Full back.
Lyon - Top class Centre and stand off.
Barrett - Top class stand off and loose.
Lydon - Top class Centre and Fullback.
Skerrett - Top class Prop and Superman impersonator

I'll leave it there as the list would be enormous if I listed everyone. The point is those (and many more like them) excelled not only at club level but at representative level too. It's not actually that rare and when discussing positional movement at SL club level we're talking several levels below that.

I think many of the players we are watching right now will play more than one position during their careers and to a good standard too. KPP has already played centre, back row and prop and he's only at the start of his career!

Many of those players transitioned from one position to another as they got older. They didn’t regularly play in all the positions you mentioned. It’s not new that players do that as their career progresses. For example Andy Platt never went back to playing back row once he moved to prop. Same with Peacock. Sam T is now known as a full back, not a stand off. Hanley played loose forward for Wigan and when he did he didn’t go back to playing any other position. Joe Lydon also became a full back and did not revert to playing wing.

As to KPP he played centre for a bit because we hadn’t got any! He was also found out as not that good at it after a while. Same with Isa. Needs must has seen him at centre but the idea KPP or Isa being played there shows players are playing more than one position because they are versatile or good enough to do so is wrong in my opinion.

[DaveO]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

Kallum Watkins - SL centre and back rower.
Johnny Lomax - SL fullback and Half (also played both at international level)
Beven French - SL wing and Fullback
Jack Welsby - SL fullback and stand off.
Sam Tomkins - SL fullback and stand off (also played internationally in both positions)
KPP - SL back rower and centre and last night's MOM.
George Williams - SL hooker and half
Arthur Morgue - SL stand off, scrum half and Fullback

Same comment applies to this list as that Flash ca e up with, I don’t know enough about the non Wigan players to comment but the rest are equally poor examples. How many games has Williams played at hooker? Is Sam Tomkins now not seen as a full back and no longer as a stand off? The worst one is KPP and suggesting his time at centre is evidence of anything given he was quickly found out by other teams and just wasn’t good at it is a real stretch.

As I said in my other reply, players often transition from one position to another as their career progresses and they get older but don’t often pop up all over the field. Wingers have even ended up as props before now but they don’t go back to playing on the wing.

[Flash]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

Kallum Watkins - SL centre and back rower.
Johnny Lomax - SL fullback and Half (also played both at international level)
Beven French - SL wing and Fullback
Jack Welsby - SL fullback and stand off.
Sam Tomkins - SL fullback and stand off (also played internationally in both positions)
KPP - SL back rower and centre and last night's MOM.
George Williams - SL hooker and half
Arthur Morgue - SL stand off, scrum half and Fullback

Same comment applies to this list as that Flash ca e up with, I don’t know enough about the non Wigan players to comment but the rest are equally poor examples. How many games has Williams played at hooker? Is Sam Tomkins now not seen as a full back and no longer as a stand off? The worst one is KPP and suggesting his time at centre is evidence of anything given he was quickly found out by other teams and just wasn’t good at it is a real stretch.

As I said in my other reply, players often transition from one position to another as their career progresses and they get older but don’t often pop up all over the field. Wingers have even ended up as props before now but they don’t go back to playing on the wing.

And the most predictable thing on this forum happens; DaveO pops up with a straw man argument. Please point out where I said these weren't transitions as a career progressed. The discussion was about players being able to play more than one position to a high standard. ALL the examples I have given have done exactly that. No one has even mentioned returning to their previous position except you. Your comments are totally meaningless in the context of the discussion.

As for KPP, he won man of the match from prop on Friday and I absolutely GUARANTEE he will return to the back row at some point.

Oh! And for the record George Williams played a Grand Final at hooker. Is that a good enough standard for you given that SL doesn't have a higher standard than that? Or would you like to pretend again that I said the number of games played was the defining factor?

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Every single player you have listed above Flash is an international player! The players suggested originally by our fans aren’t international level! My simple point is the better player you are the easier you find it to play multiple positions! The players some on here are asking to change positions struggle to perform consistently in a position they play in every week!

[TrueBlueWarrior]

The players Flash listed were all ‘Top End’ players in their original position, so for them to transition to another position is far easier! The quality they all had made them world class, it’s just easier for them!

The players that some on here are suggesting a change of position for are nowhere near ‘Top End’ in their preferred position that they have been playing for all their careers. So for them to transition to a new position would be far more difficult, however there would be exceptions to the rule but very few!

Comparing players like Hanley to Powell etc. Hanley could play anywhere and make a difference he was that good! Powell is very limited as a stand off originally and then as Hooker! He has already tried a new position and being honest is not good enough in either position! Because he just doesn’t have the ability!

That’s the difference! A change of position is far easier when you have more ability!

I'm not sure that last sentence is necessarily true either though. Isn't it all relative to someone's ability as a whole? I don't think a Championship standard stand off would be any less likely to be able to adapt to being a Championship standard fullback.

Surely what matters most in terms of any player being able to adapt to a different position is their abilities and physical attributes that are transferrable to different positions.

Tomkins is a quality player but I don't think he'd be more capable of playing at centre than Abbas Miski would (one of the suggested positional changes) purely because he's a much more talented player.

Second row forwards moving to prop happens a lot. Outside backs being able to play multiple positions in the backline is also pretty common regardless of the level they are playing at.

I didn’t think it needed pointing out that some players can’t play in some positions no matter how much ability they have got! Not sure Bevan would make a good prop! But positions that are transferable are so much easier to transition into when you have more ability! Some of the players suggested on here to move positions aren’t good enough, however there would be the odd exception!