Byrne

[boggart]

I don't like seeing a youngster who works pretty hard every week, whether currently very effectively or not, get this sort of criticism. I think he needs a rest and some specialised coaching, perhaps by Waney himself, who was also a prop if I remember correctly (an attempt at humour). I recall John Monie saying in his book 'The Iceman' that Waney needed to try a bit harder, or wasn't hungry enough, or something along those lines. Whether that was before he won MOTM in the World Club Challenge i can't remember. Any road up, lets look for a way to boost young Liam up a bit before we write him off. Liverpool kept a close eye on the young, talented Steven Gerrard for quite a while and didn't overplay him whilst he grew, filled out and built up his strength and stamina. Liam Byrne's, of necessity, done quite a few of the hardest yards over the past year or two for a young lad, let's not give up on him. Compared to him, Patrick Mago should wake up blushing every morning.

[Shaun Wane Legend]

^^^^^ Totally agree.

[nathan_rugby]

It's so rare for props to hit their peak in their early or even mid 20's. Byrne reminds me a bit of Gil Dudson when he was at the club. Plenty of promise and some good performances early on in his career but mostly just a lot of waiting around for him to reach his potential. Which Dudson did, at the age of around 28/29, while playing for a completely different team.

It feels like the club consider Byrne as a first choice prop but that just highlights how much of a massive problem this position has been for the club. He's never been consistent enough to be a regular starter but he's so often been a regular starter and if we're honest that's mostly because we've either had players injured or because all our other props have been much worse. He hasn't really kicked on much in the last few years and the club must be open to the prospect of him not actually improving much for a few years.

I think there's been an attitude at times where our planning ahead for future seasons is based on the assumption that young forwards will continue to improve and if someone is in the first team at 20 they'll be a top player by 23. It so very rarely works like that. The best teams have top props at their peak, ages 27 and above and they have quite a few of those players. What worries me next year is our only recruits at prop are two more young players who could become top players where the assumption will be they'll continue to improve along with other young props like Havard and Byrne and Hill.

There's a reason that Grand Final winning teams generally have several middles above the age of 30 and sometimes in their mid-30's. Experience is a big thing when it comes to props. Players like Havard are a rarity. There will be others that come to mind, but only because they are very good players. The majority have a much tougher progression.

So back to the point, Byrne is probably where you'd expect him to be at this age if you look at how young props usually progress. It's currently not great. We can't go into next season assuming it will be any better just because he's one year older. It often takes a lot longer than that.

Having said that, if you do have a young prop that is currently playing well, you should give them game time. Harvie Hill has been really good when he's been given a chance. He's had a bit of a rest and not been overworked. I thought the decision not to play him today was madness. We're a man down and the forwards are bound to be worked harder than usual. Byrne didn't perform particularly well and Mago quickly became less effective the longer he was on. Why not play someone who has been making a positive impact off the bench in most of his previous games?

The big worry is that at the last Fans Forum (I think), Radlinski said Wigan would soon reap the rewards of persisting with so many youngsters at the same time.

We are still waiting and there’s lots of concerns with Smith, Byrne, Shorrocks who are 3 out of the 5 youth players that are still with us from which Rads based the comments on. The other two being Havard and Smithies who are doing great.

[nathan_rugby]

I don't like seeing a youngster who works pretty hard every week, whether currently very effectively or not, get this sort of criticism. I think he needs a rest and some specialised coaching, perhaps by Waney himself, who was also a prop if I remember correctly (an attempt at humour). I recall John Monie saying in his book 'The Iceman' that Waney needed to try a bit harder, or wasn't hungry enough, or something along those lines. Whether that was before he won MOTM in the World Club Challenge i can't remember. Any road up, lets look for a way to boost young Liam up a bit before we write him off. Liverpool kept a close eye on the young, talented Steven Gerrard for quite a while and didn't overplay him whilst he grew, filled out and built up his strength and stamina. Liam Byrne's, of necessity, done quite a few of the hardest yards over the past year or two for a young lad, let's not give up on him. Compared to him, Patrick Mago should wake up blushing every morning.

Literally just making stuff up - specialised coaching, what even is that? You could say that about everyone.

Byrne tries hard, has a good injury record and has time on his side as prop.

The issue is Wigan have hedged their bets on too many young forwards at the same time and created an imbalance in quality and experience.

That is a Wigan issue, not a Byrne issue, however his recent performances have warranted criticism.

[boggart]

Like a kicking coach, you know, specialised in kicking. And what's made up, exactly?

[Flash]

I posted on the other forum after last week's game that Byrne just isn't doing enough. His running style is all wrong and he folds in the tackle far too quickly. Most worryingly, though, is he's gone from being a solid defender to a really passive one who seems lazy in the tackle and allows far too many offloads and post contact metres.

It almost looks like a prop suffering burn out. He's played a lot at a young age and has, perhaps, been 'the last man standing' all too often with the constant injuries and suspensions that we keep picking up in that position. He's also, as others have pointed out, still young for a prop who wouldn't normally come into his peak for maybe another 4 or 5 years so there's still time.

That said, we can't keep suffering these 'meh!' performances. He needs to step up or be relieved of duties when Havard is back. He simply isn't a starting prop at the moment.

[pedro]

Like a kicking coach, you know, specialised in kicking. And what's made up, exactly?

so what? learn him how to run?....really? thats his job,

[endoman]

Why not? Did it with Scott Quinnell as he stopped upon contact like in Union. Used to have Bill Hartley as a running coach.

[DaveO]

So back to the point, Byrne is probably where you'd expect him to be at this age if you look at how young props usually progress. It's currently not great. We can't go into next season assuming it will be any better just because he's one year older. It often takes a lot longer than that.

Your are being far too kind to Byrne. Hill already looks a better player and he’s 18. So does the bloke we have signed from Leeds. Byrne has had a few seasons in the first team now and seems to be going backwards and we can’t afford to have a player who offers so little as a first team regular. It’s one of the contributing factors a to why we are an average team these days - because we have bang average players like him in it.

[DaveO]

Why not? Did it with Scott Quinnell as he stopped upon contact like in Union. Used to have Bill Hartley as a running coach.

I remember that. Can’t remember who was coach at the time, might have been Monie but I am sure they commented that the running coach got players that bit faster just by having them taught a better running technique. It was that sort of attention to detail that helped Wigan be such a great team at the time.