i'd say your argument fell apart when you put Matty Smith into a good kicker category. the majority on here slated him week in week out for finding the full back or winger (also at the ground in the East stand where i sit too)
i think you'll find part of it i down to possession and territory. Penrith battered us in that regards, and we were kicking from deep every set, with Penrith having FB and at least one winger back to field the kicks
Look back to good friday last season, where we controlled the game far better and Tommy Makinson was black and blue from being smashed on his own try line (within 5m of it) as the kicks were so accurate on the day
so i think part of it has to be down to control of the game, and what is perceived to be the best option at that point. How many other players would have executed the kick he put in for England to Newman for the try scored in the test series (not many)
Smiths kicking
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Wintergreen
- Posts: 1625
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Re: Smiths kicking
I'm not an RL coach, so haven't done the analysis, but I would have thought that a "high hanging" kick vs one that "finds space", each have their own pro's and con's.
Theoretically is it better to kick a ball extremely high, have a chasing pack all running in unison potentially competing for the ball, or at least making the return extremely hard? Quite probably, yes. How easy is this in reality, probably very difficult.
The laws of ballistics also come into play. Whilst the above would theoretically be a fantastic play while kicking from your own 10 yard line, it's extremely unlikely that a player can deliver the power required to execute it.
In simple terms the above means that a "bomb" is less likely to happen, the closer you are to your own try line.
All very obvious so far.
However, there will be a "grey" area somewhere in the above, where depending on the kicker, the chasers, the weather etc a high hanging kick will be replaced with one that finds the ground and vice versa.
Theoretically is it better to kick a ball extremely high, have a chasing pack all running in unison potentially competing for the ball, or at least making the return extremely hard? Quite probably, yes. How easy is this in reality, probably very difficult.
The laws of ballistics also come into play. Whilst the above would theoretically be a fantastic play while kicking from your own 10 yard line, it's extremely unlikely that a player can deliver the power required to execute it.
In simple terms the above means that a "bomb" is less likely to happen, the closer you are to your own try line.
All very obvious so far.
However, there will be a "grey" area somewhere in the above, where depending on the kicker, the chasers, the weather etc a high hanging kick will be replaced with one that finds the ground and vice versa.
Re: Smiths kicking
Those NRL kickers I saw in Vegas must be rubbish too. Most of those kick were also fielded on the full.
BTW, with 3 men back, and the ball being in the air for - say 4 seconds - each of those players can cover a circle around 40m in radius (maybe a little less) - how much pitch area is actually available for a down the field kick to land in without being fielded on the full? I'd guess almost none. If you want the ball to bounce, kicking low and short might do it, or kicking on the 3rd or 4th against a single FB. The best option is to make good ground, get quick PTBs and put in an attacking kick. That's not typically the situation we're kicking in (especially against Penrith!). The best you can do is get good distance and have a good chase, occassionally you can find the ground and make a few more metres in the chase, but I just don't think you an expect that everytime the ball is kicked and call a kicker useless if it doesn't happen!
BTW, with 3 men back, and the ball being in the air for - say 4 seconds - each of those players can cover a circle around 40m in radius (maybe a little less) - how much pitch area is actually available for a down the field kick to land in without being fielded on the full? I'd guess almost none. If you want the ball to bounce, kicking low and short might do it, or kicking on the 3rd or 4th against a single FB. The best option is to make good ground, get quick PTBs and put in an attacking kick. That's not typically the situation we're kicking in (especially against Penrith!). The best you can do is get good distance and have a good chase, occassionally you can find the ground and make a few more metres in the chase, but I just don't think you an expect that everytime the ball is kicked and call a kicker useless if it doesn't happen!
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southportcdm
- Posts: 1159
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Re: Smiths kicking
I must admit I can find it frustrating when nearly all our kicks are caught on the full but Harry must be following the instructions of the coaching staff so I'll accept that they know best. If anybody feels really unhappy with the kicking game on view at the DW just watch one of the 'Six Nations' internationals this weekend and thank your lucky stars that we don't have to put up that pile of sh*** every week.
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Wiganer Ted
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Re: Smiths kicking
Harry's kicking is very good.
Whether the opposing players catch the ball on the full is not the point any more I don't think. It's about playing the game in the opposition's half.
A high kick from Harry and the fb is stood there waiting for the ball to drop whilst all the time watching Wigan players run top speed at him. Usually the first three ptb are slow and deep in their half.
From their kick at the end of set may well not threaten our line.
To me it's the game where now teams not just try to control their own set but the opposition's too. Best way to do that it a deep kick which will get them starting a set around their 10/20 mtr line.
On that basis Harry's doing a great job!
Whether the opposing players catch the ball on the full is not the point any more I don't think. It's about playing the game in the opposition's half.
A high kick from Harry and the fb is stood there waiting for the ball to drop whilst all the time watching Wigan players run top speed at him. Usually the first three ptb are slow and deep in their half.
From their kick at the end of set may well not threaten our line.
To me it's the game where now teams not just try to control their own set but the opposition's too. Best way to do that it a deep kick which will get them starting a set around their 10/20 mtr line.
On that basis Harry's doing a great job!
Re: Smiths kicking
High hanging kick = more time for defenders to form a structured line and pressure the catcher, less opportunity for broken play counter attacking. More time for catcher to get into position. THe chase has to be good to make it effective otherwise it's a gift of easy metres for the catcher.
Low ground kick = gets to catcher quicker, yes it can turn them around and they lose more ground, but playing against good kick return teams with some skill and pace they have more time to evade a line that is less structured.
It's all about field position, where we are on the field, and element of risk needed.
Bevan on the other hand will put in a low punt which often finds ground and he has the pace to reach it without the hang time. He's usually in a more advanced position at this time and on teh front foot, where Harry is often kicking out of defence under pressure.
Low ground kick = gets to catcher quicker, yes it can turn them around and they lose more ground, but playing against good kick return teams with some skill and pace they have more time to evade a line that is less structured.
It's all about field position, where we are on the field, and element of risk needed.
Bevan on the other hand will put in a low punt which often finds ground and he has the pace to reach it without the hang time. He's usually in a more advanced position at this time and on teh front foot, where Harry is often kicking out of defence under pressure.
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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Smiths kicking
I wouldn't expect 90% of kickers to find the floor when kicking from their own 30/40 line unless they caught the FB off guard as you are kicking for distance. If you think about it a rugby league player can cover a lot of ground in the few seconds a ball is in the air. a Full back who is paying attention can probably cover a 20-30m circle from the position he is in from when the ball is kicked so finding a patch of grass on a be long kick is hard.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
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Beryl O'Neill
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Re: Smiths kicking
Smith can read a game better than anyone in this generation of Rugby player's on par with Shaun Edward's. And a Good goal kicker as well when not distracted by some players chatting to referees.So let's enjoy what he does.Remeber no one's Perfect.
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nathan_rugby
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Re: Smiths kicking
Steady on.Beryl O'Neill wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:19 am Smith can read a game better than anyone in this generation of Rugby player's on par with Shaun Edward's. And a Good goal kicker as well when not distracted by some players chatting to referees.So let's enjoy what he does.Remeber no one's Perfect.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
Re: Smiths kicking
You’re right Nath. Steady onnathan_rugby wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:00 amSteady on.Beryl O'Neill wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:19 am Smith can read a game better than anyone in this generation of Rugby player's on par with Shaun Edward's. And a Good goal kicker as well when not distracted by some players chatting to referees.So let's enjoy what he does.Remeber no one's Perfect.