Why?

[moto748]

Good points well made, morley.

[Mike]

I was thinking about this too and I suspect there are many perspectives on the reasons why. I feel like we had some poor games last year too or am I misremembering? Perhaps an excellent haul of trophies can skew perception a bit. Is it maybe the timing of the losses rather than how they're happening?

It's just this that has happened before so it's not exactly unprecedented plus, I wonder if it's unreasonable to expect humans to the standards fans typically set week in and week out?

We certainly did have a dip, and maybe more than one last season. I'm fine with us plying below par for a couple of months at this point in the year, especially with awkward injuries. We've just got to get a 50/50 win rate during periods like this and we're still in for the LL shield and GF. I'd be more concerned if we'd played well all season and were starting a dip in form just before the playoffs. Just put together a 90% winning run in the 8 weeks leading into the playoffs and we'll be good. That;s the way to win it all, not by being 100% the whole year - that's just impossible IMO.

[Mike]

I had been thinking at the start of the season “would I like Wigan to complete a clean sweep again this season “ and the answer is no. For the strength of the league and ultimately of Wigan we need strong challengers. Admittedly the manner in which Wigan can lose can be disappointing. Conversely seeing improvement from inevitable mistakes made is what makes sport interesting.
I seem to remember that last season after Wigan won the WCC that they weren’t playing as well as they could.
The answer to “Why ?” Is because other teams are playing well.

Sorry but I think that is complete bollocks in particular the last sentence as the only decent side we have played so far is Leigh.

Would you like Wigan to complete a clean sweep again? Of course. We do not have to losefor the good of the league. Others have to win. Do you expect a clean sweep again? No as it was exceptional but we really should not be out of the cup to a very average Hull side by losing at home.

If Wigan were seeing strong challenger's that might be different but as I see it HKR are the side to beat again and everyone else is little improved. We have played one decent side in Leigh but they were good last year and our own play is not convincing.

If Vegas has anything to do with it then as it meant nothing but two league points it was not worth it. Out of the cup costing the club a fortune had we got to Wembley again and poor form in the league.

Vegas was totallhy worth it. A once in a life time never to be forgotten experience. If following a sports team isn't about that, I don't know what its about!

[Flash]

I had been thinking at the start of the season “would I like Wigan to complete a clean sweep again this season “ and the answer is no. For the strength of the league and ultimately of Wigan we need strong challengers. Admittedly the manner in which Wigan can lose can be disappointing. Conversely seeing improvement from inevitable mistakes made is what makes sport interesting.
I seem to remember that last season after Wigan won the WCC that they weren’t playing as well as they could.
The answer to “Why ?” Is because other teams are playing well.

Sorry but I think that is complete bollocks in particular the last sentence as the only decent side we have played so far is Leigh.

Would you like Wigan to complete a clean sweep again? Of course. We do not have to losefor the good of the league. Others have to win. Do you expect a clean sweep again? No as it was exceptional but we really should not be out of the cup to a very average Hull side by losing at home.

If Wigan were seeing strong challenger's that might be different but as I see it HKR are the side to beat again and everyone else is little improved. We have played one decent side in Leigh but they were good last year and our own play is not convincing.

If Vegas has anything to do with it then as it meant nothing but two league points it was not worth it. Out of the cup costing the club a fortune had we got to Wembley again and poor form in the league.

Vegas was totallhy worth it. A once in a life time never to be forgotten experience. If following a sports team isn't about that, I don't know what its about!

Well said Mike. Most of the people complaining either don't go to matches at all or only go to selected home matches if there's nothing else they'd rather be doing yet still get the hump if the club dares put something on that they can't get to! The club's fan base is made up of many different types from armchair fans to 'home and away' supporters and you can't run the club to the lowest common denominator.

Many thousand of us travelled to Vegas and I doubt you'd find many who didn't regard it as one of, if not the, best time they've had following this great club.

Totally worth it even if it costs us a couple games (which I don't think it has anyway as injuries etc have played a far greater part in that).

[WarriorWinger]

I don't recall that we won the LLS last year at a canter, nor did we win the Challenge Cup, WCC or Grand Final by 40+ points, we won by doing what Wigan do best, turning up when needed and putting enough points on the opposition to win the game.

Has it all gone plain sailing this first few months, no it hasn't, I don't think it did last years either, we are not some super human team that only needs to turn up to win, we have to play at our best to win games and for a couple of games this year we have played below what we are capable of, it is expected of every team not just us, you have your good days and bad days, the trick is to have more good than bad and make sure when it really matters you have your best days.

[keptinthedarkfans]

Sorry but I think that is complete bollocks in particular the last sentence as the only decent side we have played so far is Leigh.

Would you like Wigan to complete a clean sweep again? Of course. We do not have to losefor the good of the league. Others have to win. Do you expect a clean sweep again? No as it was exceptional but we really should not be out of the cup to a very average Hull side by losing at home.

If Wigan were seeing strong challenger's that might be different but as I see it HKR are the side to beat again and everyone else is little improved. We have played one decent side in Leigh but they were good last year and our own play is not convincing.

If Vegas has anything to do with it then as it meant nothing but two league points it was not worth it. Out of the cup costing the club a fortune had we got to Wembley again and poor form in the league.

Vegas was totallhy worth it. A once in a life time never to be forgotten experience. If following a sports team isn't about that, I don't know what its about!

Well said Mike. Most of the people complaining either don't go to matches at all or only go to selected home matches if there's nothing else they'd rather be doing yet still get the hump if the club dares put something on that they can't get to! The club's fan base is made up of many different types from armchair fans to 'home and away' supporters and you can't run the club to the lowest common denominator.

Many thousand of us travelled to Vegas and I doubt you'd find many who didn't regard it as one of, if not the, best time they've had following this great club.

Totally worth it even if it costs us a couple games (which I don't think it has anyway as injuries etc have played a far greater part in that).

Now thats bollocks. I am nearly 70 got my first season ticket 57 years ago had one ever since.been to every rl ground watching wigan for same amount of time. Im lucky i could afford to go to Vegas i chose not to because saw it as a slap in the face to all fans who couldn't and use the rugby home games as a family day together thats a high percentage of our fan base and future base. Your only kidding yourself if you're explanation of losing 2 games was still well worth it. HOW. Can't see one good thing that Wigan have got out of this. And now dust is settling neither can other sl clubs not exactly clambering to do it next year at this time only 2 clubs have declared any interest. After all who wants to or can afford to lose a fortune on this concept. giving away home game. It would have been interesting to see if we would have even considered this if mr danson wasn't owner. as someone some where will have to pick up the short fall losses. In my experiences this is usually the fans. So sorry for me was a vanity venture only.

[Flash]

Vegas was totallhy worth it. A once in a life time never to be forgotten experience. If following a sports team isn't about that, I don't know what its about!

Well said Mike. Most of the people complaining either don't go to matches at all or only go to selected home matches if there's nothing else they'd rather be doing yet still get the hump if the club dares put something on that they can't get to! The club's fan base is made up of many different types from armchair fans to 'home and away' supporters and you can't run the club to the lowest common denominator.

Many thousand of us travelled to Vegas and I doubt you'd find many who didn't regard it as one of, if not the, best time they've had following this great club.

Totally worth it even if it costs us a couple games (which I don't think it has anyway as injuries etc have played a far greater part in that).

Now thats bollocks. I am nearly 70 got my first season ticket 57 years ago had one ever since.been to every rl ground watching wigan for same amount of time. Im lucky i could afford to go to Vegas i chose not to because saw it as a slap in the face to all fans who couldn't and use the rugby home games as a family day together thats a high percentage of our fan base and future base. Your only kidding yourself if you're explanation of losing 2 games was still well worth it. HOW. Can't see one good thing that Wigan have got out of this. And now dust is settling neither can other sl clubs not exactly clambering to do it next year at this time only 2 clubs have declared any interest. After all who wants to or can afford to lose a fortune on this concept. giving away home game. It would have been interesting to see if we would have even considered this if mr danson wasn't owner. as someone some where will have to pick up the short fall losses. In my experiences this is usually the fans. So sorry for me was a vanity venture only.

Do me a favour! You didn't 'not go because you saw it as a slap in the face to other fans' at all. You didn't go because you didn't want to! I suppose you don't go to finals either because it's a slap in the face to those who can't afford it on top of their season tickets. It costs hundreds of pounds for the families you mention to go to a final and, in these tough times, many can't afford it. Let's all stop going to finals in protest! I don't know who you think you're fooling with tosh like this but I can assure you it isn't me.

On to a more realistic part of your post. You ask how was it worth it? If you'd chosen to go, as you claim you could have, you wouldn't need to ask. It really is as simple as that.

But more importantly, it's because I believe you're conflating two separate arguments. I simply don't believe it has cost us 2 games (I was using a hypothetical) or indeed cost us any games at all. We were leggy in the first half of the Huddersfield match and, had we carried on in the second half like that and lost, I would have conceded that it had cost us 2 points.

Of course, we didn't.

We were red hot in the 2nd half once we'd blown the cobwebs off, so to speak. The following week (so 2 weeks after Vegas) we were again red hot, absolutely blowing Hull away until injuries struck and we collapsed. Vegas didn't cause AK's MCL injury, Jai Field's tightening of the hamstring, Ellis's neck injury or the fact that we made coaching errors in the subsequent reshuffle. It's just a convenient scape goat.

The Leeds loss is 3 weeks after Vegas. Athletes from other sports, particularly elite athletics, travel around the world regularly and compete at the highest level. It doesn't take 3 to weeks to overcome jet lag!

If you truly believe Vegas was to blame, I assume you similarly agree that the fact we were red hot prior to the injuries was also due to going to Vegas? Or does that not fit your narrative? If you're arguing that it affected our performances you can't just choose where you want to apply it. If it's responsible for us running in over 60 points in the 2 games following Vegas, maybe we need more trips, not less?

Vanity project or not, it was the best time I've had following this club bar none and I'm a lifelong home and away supporter. Was it worth it? Absolutely!

[keptinthedarkfans]

Well said Mike. Most of the people complaining either don't go to matches at all or only go to selected home matches if there's nothing else they'd rather be doing yet still get the hump if the club dares put something on that they can't get to! The club's fan base is made up of many different types from armchair fans to 'home and away' supporters and you can't run the club to the lowest common denominator.

Many thousand of us travelled to Vegas and I doubt you'd find many who didn't regard it as one of, if not the, best time they've had following this great club.

Totally worth it even if it costs us a couple games (which I don't think it has anyway as injuries etc have played a far greater part in that).

Now thats bollocks. I am nearly 70 got my first season ticket 57 years ago had one ever since.been to every rl ground watching wigan for same amount of time. Im lucky i could afford to go to Vegas i chose not to because saw it as a slap in the face to all fans who couldn't and use the rugby home games as a family day together thats a high percentage of our fan base and future base. Your only kidding yourself if you're explanation of losing 2 games was still well worth it. HOW. Can't see one good thing that Wigan have got out of this. And now dust is settling neither can other sl clubs not exactly clambering to do it next year at this time only 2 clubs have declared any interest. After all who wants to or can afford to lose a fortune on this concept. giving away home game. It would have been interesting to see if we would have even considered this if mr danson wasn't owner. as someone some where will have to pick up the short fall losses. In my experiences this is usually the fans. So sorry for me was a vanity venture only.

Do me a favour! You didn't 'not go because you saw it as a slap in the face to other fans' at all. You didn't go because you didn't want to! I suppose you don't go to finals either because it's a slap in the face to those who can't afford it on top of their season tickets. It costs hundreds of pounds for the families you mention to go to a final and, in these tough times, many can't afford it. Let's all stop going to finals in protest! I don't know who you think you're fooling with tosh like this but I can assure you it isn't me.

On to a more realistic part of your post. You ask how was it worth it? If you'd chosen to go, as you claim you could have, you wouldn't need to ask. It really is as simple as that.

But more importantly, it's because I believe you're conflating two separate arguments. I simply don't believe it has cost us 2 games (I was using a hypothetical) or indeed cost us any games at all. We were leggy in the first half of the Huddersfield match and, had we carried on in the second half like that and lost, I would have conceded that it had cost us 2 points.

Of course, we didn't.

We were red hot in the 2nd half once we'd blown the cobwebs off, so to speak. The following week (so 2 weeks after Vegas) we were again red hot, absolutely blowing Hull away until injuries struck and we collapsed. Vegas didn't cause AK's MCL injury, Jai Field's tightening of the hamstring, Ellis's neck injury or the fact that we made coaching errors in the subsequent reshuffle. It's just a convenient scape goat.

The Leeds loss is 3 weeks after Vegas. Athletes from other sports, particularly elite athletics, travel around the world regularly and compete at the highest level. It doesn't take 3 to weeks to overcome jet lag!

If you truly believe Vegas was to blame, I assume you similarly agree that the fact we were red hot prior to the injuries was also due to going to Vegas? Or does that not fit your narrative? If you're arguing that it affected our performances you can't just choose where you want to apply it. If it's responsible for us running in over 60 points in the 2 games following Vegas, maybe we need more trips, not less?

Vanity project or not, it was the best time I've had following this club bar none and I'm a lifelong home and away supporter. Was it worth it? Absolutely!

You do me a favour you don't know me so dont pretend too. You havnt a clue on where i have been with wigan and what i have watched for record never missed a cup game and can count on one hand amount of games i have missed. And can also have claim to family members playing for Wigan. So dont for one minute think i didnt go because I didn't feel like it. And pressume you know me. For the record glad you enjoyed your holiday and could watch a game why you was on them. Oh and i never mentioned we lost 2 games through it. You did. I actually agree with your view on the 2 games.

[Flash]

Now thats bollocks. I am nearly 70 got my first season ticket 57 years ago had one ever since.been to every rl ground watching wigan for same amount of time. Im lucky i could afford to go to Vegas i chose not to because saw it as a slap in the face to all fans who couldn't and use the rugby home games as a family day together thats a high percentage of our fan base and future base. Your only kidding yourself if you're explanation of losing 2 games was still well worth it. HOW. Can't see one good thing that Wigan have got out of this. And now dust is settling neither can other sl clubs not exactly clambering to do it next year at this time only 2 clubs have declared any interest. After all who wants to or can afford to lose a fortune on this concept. giving away home game. It would have been interesting to see if we would have even considered this if mr danson wasn't owner. as someone some where will have to pick up the short fall losses. In my experiences this is usually the fans. So sorry for me was a vanity venture only.

Do me a favour! You didn't 'not go because you saw it as a slap in the face to other fans' at all. You didn't go because you didn't want to! I suppose you don't go to finals either because it's a slap in the face to those who can't afford it on top of their season tickets. It costs hundreds of pounds for the families you mention to go to a final and, in these tough times, many can't afford it. Let's all stop going to finals in protest! I don't know who you think you're fooling with tosh like this but I can assure you it isn't me.

On to a more realistic part of your post. You ask how was it worth it? If you'd chosen to go, as you claim you could have, you wouldn't need to ask. It really is as simple as that.

But more importantly, it's because I believe you're conflating two separate arguments. I simply don't believe it has cost us 2 games (I was using a hypothetical) or indeed cost us any games at all. We were leggy in the first half of the Huddersfield match and, had we carried on in the second half like that and lost, I would have conceded that it had cost us 2 points.

Of course, we didn't.

We were red hot in the 2nd half once we'd blown the cobwebs off, so to speak. The following week (so 2 weeks after Vegas) we were again red hot, absolutely blowing Hull away until injuries struck and we collapsed. Vegas didn't cause AK's MCL injury, Jai Field's tightening of the hamstring, Ellis's neck injury or the fact that we made coaching errors in the subsequent reshuffle. It's just a convenient scape goat.

The Leeds loss is 3 weeks after Vegas. Athletes from other sports, particularly elite athletics, travel around the world regularly and compete at the highest level. It doesn't take 3 to weeks to overcome jet lag!

If you truly believe Vegas was to blame, I assume you similarly agree that the fact we were red hot prior to the injuries was also due to going to Vegas? Or does that not fit your narrative? If you're arguing that it affected our performances you can't just choose where you want to apply it. If it's responsible for us running in over 60 points in the 2 games following Vegas, maybe we need more trips, not less?

Vanity project or not, it was the best time I've had following this club bar none and I'm a lifelong home and away supporter. Was it worth it? Absolutely!

You do me a favour you don't know me so dont pretend too. You havnt a clue on where i have been with wigan and what i have watched for record never missed a cup game and can count on one hand amount of games i have missed. And can also have claim to family members playing for Wigan. So dont for one minute think i didnt go because I didn't feel like it. And pressume you know me. For the record glad you enjoyed your holiday and could watch a game why you was on them. Oh and i never mentioned we lost 2 games through it. You did. I actually agree with your view on the 2 games.

It's irrelevant where you've been or which grounds you've been to. My contention is with you claiming that you didn't go because some families couldn't have a day out together at the rugby on that day. Well as I said, the same applies to finals so don't you go to them either? Should the club not participate in them in case some people perceive it as a "slap in the face"? It's interesting that you mention never having missed a cup game. You do realise that the same criticism is levelled at these as it isn't included in the season tickets and many people can't afford the money on top of what they already fork out? Particularly families. Why don't you boycott these for the same reasons?

The fact is you made a personal decision not to attend Vegas. I'll say no more on your motives one way or another but ultimately what you're saying is "some people can't go so the club shouldn't do it". I'm sorry but that's just nonsense.

Similarly your argument re: Mike Danson. It really is irrelevant what would have happened had we not had him as we do have him. You could equally argue "would we still have French without Danson" and the answer could well be "no". Does that mean we shouldn't have re-signed him because we wouldn't have been able to afford him without Danson?

Ultimately, the trip was an awesome event enjoyed by thousands of die-hard fans (and their families, ironically) and the millions who watched it on TV the world over. As I say, worth it? Absolutely!

[DaveO]

I had been thinking at the start of the season “would I like Wigan to complete a clean sweep again this season “ and the answer is no. For the strength of the league and ultimately of Wigan we need strong challengers. Admittedly the manner in which Wigan can lose can be disappointing. Conversely seeing improvement from inevitable mistakes made is what makes sport interesting.
I seem to remember that last season after Wigan won the WCC that they weren’t playing as well as they could.
The answer to “Why ?” Is because other teams are playing well.

Sorry but I think that is complete bollocks in particular the last sentence as the only decent side we have played so far is Leigh.

Would you like Wigan to complete a clean sweep again? Of course. We do not have to losefor the good of the league. Others have to win. Do you expect a clean sweep again? No as it was exceptional but we really should not be out of the cup to a very average Hull side by losing at home.

If Wigan were seeing strong challenger's that might be different but as I see it HKR are the side to beat again and everyone else is little improved. We have played one decent side in Leigh but they were good last year and our own play is not convincing.

If Vegas has anything to do with it then as it meant nothing but two league points it was not worth it. Out of the cup costing the club a fortune had we got to Wembley again and poor form in the league.

Vegas was totallhy worth it. A once in a life time never to be forgotten experience. If following a sports team isn't about that, I don't know what its about!

Vegas is well past being yesterday’s fish and chip paper.

The sport is about cup finals and GF’s. It was two league points and seems to have been nothing but a distraction for the players.

If the RFL wants to be involved with something like that then make it the Magic weekend. Trouble is, it was not even the RFL’s idea. It was Rads being the “big I am”. I doubt making it Magic weekend would be feasible anyway as that would probably be unaffordable for several clubs. I believe it cost Wigan money to go so I doubt it is sustainable without direct sponsorship.