Lockers talking us up in the Wigan Observer

[hayley 04]

Well said Dave O its about time someone pointed out the obvious. Danny Orr will always be blamed for everything that goes wrong and jinkin jimmy and doveoverdave can't even give a good enough arguement for why they constantly blame him and not the captain. Just shows how pathetic they're opinions really are. Thing is, much as I agree with everything said about Danny Orr and how he should be captain part of me feels hurt for Sean o Loughlin. Thinking logically its easier for Danny Orr and Bryan Fletcher to stand and shout and motivate the team and see where the gaps need filling etc as they have both been captains at their previous clubs and know what to look for and I am most grateful and most of the fans are but Sean has only been captain for half a season and things have gone badly wrong and its not all his fault. It must be so hard to pick players up when he hasn't had any experience in this situation. It must be doubly hard when everyone is comparing you to the greatest player ever to pull on a Wigan shirt - Andrew Farrell - in my opinion. People should recognise thatand respect him for that not keep comparing him all the time. He is who he is and thats that. But of course as I said thanks must also go to Danny and Bryan who maybe recognise this and are trying to help him through it.

[GeoffN]

Seems to me that two different aspects of various players' games are being confused here. I'd agree that O'Loughlin has not been as good at captaincy as was hoped, although having said that, I'm not convinced that anyone, Farrell included, could have made much difference in that role.

As players, though, I can't agree that Lockers deserves as much criticism as he's getting. He's created far more in attack than have Orr and Moran combined, and does at least as much, if not more than Orr in defence.
It's easy to highlight, as DaveO has, his mistakes, but that could be applied to just about any player: no-one's perfect.

[DaveO]

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:
But he is the captain! If the defensive line is poor he should sort it out not give penalties away trying to cover its frailties himself as an individual.

I do struggle with this bit, however. If he has the abilty to get across to cover gaps in the defense then of course he has to do it! He can't very well stand there, watch someone run through a hole then think to himself "I'll have to sort this defence out"!

I wasn't suggesting he did. Rather after he has yet again taken it upon himself to shore the defence up he should be telling the rest of the team to buck their ideas up and help him out. He has had plenty of opportunities stood behind the sticks to lay the law down and get the team to be as committed as he is in defence.

He doesn't, he just carries on trying his best in isolation which is to the detriment of his game in my opinion and can't seemingly get the rest of the team to follow his example.

Dave

[hayley 04]

Excuse me two eyed warrior who do you think you are? I thought crearivity was not only half backs but hookers and loose forward but oh no on this board only one person can constantly be blamed. It's ridiculous and if you bothered to read what Brian Noble said about Barrett you would have realised that he isn't necessarily coming as stand off but either scrum half or loose forward. Oh dear maybe you're beloved Sean isn't safe either and by the way Geoff if no player is perfect why do you expect perfection from Danny Orr. Bit of a double standard isn't it? Oh and another thing you if you have watched all Wigan's games this year like I have then you'll find Danny Orr does more attacking and certainly more defending than Sean and probably more try saving tackles then anyone other than Chris Ashton. But then again this thread isn't Danny Orr verses Sean O Loughlin. They all play on the same side and no doubt support each other greatly.

[jinkin jimmy]

Hayley, why are you such a one trick pony (and aggressive with it)? Geoff, Dave, TEW , DOD and myself all post on a plethora of topics, but all you do is defend Danny Orr. Don't you have any opinions on anything else?

[jinkin jimmy]

DaveO posted:

jinkin jimmy posted:

DaveO posted:
But he is the captain! If the defensive line is poor he should sort it out not give penalties away trying to cover its frailties himself as an individual.

I do struggle with this bit, however. If he has the abilty to get across to cover gaps in the defense then of course he has to do it! He can't very well stand there, watch someone run through a hole then think to himself "I'll have to sort this defence out"!

I wasn't suggesting he did. Rather after he has yet again taken it upon himself to shore the defence up he should be telling the rest of the team to buck their ideas up and help him out. He has had plenty of opportunities stood behind the sticks to lay the law down and get the team to be as committed as he is in defence.

He doesn't, he just carries on trying his best in isolation which is to the detriment of his game in my opinion and can't seemingly get the rest of the team to follow his example.

Dave

I can't fault your argument, Dave.

[hayley 04]

Oh I'm sorry jinkin jimmy I didn't realise i had to have your approval on what I posted on. Yes I do have other opinions but most of the time I agree with what's written so don't feel the need to comment but some people on here are so one sided over Danny Orr I feel the need to defend him. I get aggressive because I feel so angry the way this board treat Danny when other players play a lot worse i.e Sean O Loughlin, Kevin Brown, Micky Higham but excuses are made time and time again. What encourages me though is knowing you, Geoff, Doveoverdave and others who are so blatently biased against him are in a minority as the cherry and white board appreciate him as do most fans at games who constantly sing his name.

[Doveoverdave]

hayley 04 posted:
Excuse me two eyed warrior who do you think you are? I thought crearivity was not only half backs but hookers and loose forward but oh no on this board only one person can constantly be blamed. It's ridiculous and if you bothered to read what Brian Noble said about Barrett you would have realised that he isn't necessarily coming as stand off but either scrum half or loose forward. Oh dear maybe you're beloved Sean isn't safe either and by the way Geoff if no player is perfect why do you expect perfection from Danny Orr. Bit of a double standard isn't it? Oh and another thing you if you have watched all Wigan's games this year like I have then you'll find Danny Orr does more attacking and certainly more defending than Sean and probably more try saving tackles then anyone other than Chris Ashton. But then again this thread isn't Danny Orr verses Sean O Loughlin. They all play on the same side and no doubt support each other greatly.

Your crackers as the dropping of Brown and the sacking of Moran has had the backing of the majority on this board, but Orr may be next in line.

[Fujiman]

hayley 04 posted:
I get aggressive because I feel so angry the way this board treat Danny when other players play a lot worse i.e Sean O Loughlin, Kevin Brown, Micky Higham but excuses are made time and time again..

I think you'll find all three of these have been slagged off on here.
PS must go for a hearing test as i've never heard his name sung

[robjoenz]

hayley 04 posted:
Excuse me two eyed warrior who do you think you are? I thought crearivity was not only half backs but hookers and loose forward but oh no on this board only one person can constantly be blamed. It's ridiculous and if you bothered to read what Brian Noble said about Barrett you would have realised that he isn't necessarily coming as stand off but either scrum half or loose forward. Oh dear maybe you're beloved Sean isn't safe either and by the way Geoff if no player is perfect why do you expect perfection from Danny Orr. Bit of a double standard isn't it? Oh and another thing you if you have watched all Wigan's games this year like I have then you'll find Danny Orr does more attacking and certainly more defending than Sean and probably more try saving tackles then anyone other than Chris Ashton. But then again this thread isn't Danny Orr verses Sean O Loughlin. They all play on the same side and no doubt support each other greatly.

Firstly, those that disagree with Hayley, please communicate that in a friendly manner please so as not to upset her.

Hayley, I'm sorry but I think you're fighting a losing battle here. Your arguments had a little more credibility at the beginning of last season when he'd had a year to settle in but he's had more than long enough now. The unfortunate truth is that Danny Orr doesn't fit into the Wigan team.

I am not sure where you see this creative attack from, Dennis Moran was more prominent going forward than Orr. Orr doesn't have the pace we need from stand-off to make a break and he doesn't have the same ball carrying ability that O'Loughlin has. If you watch a lot of our attacking plays, O'Loughlin is at the centre of it. Danny Orr is very often unnoticable on the field.

In defence he is indeed a good tackler, nice and low around the ankles, but I'm afraid Sean O'Loughlin's tackling record is far superior. I have not seen this seasons tackling stats but in 2004 O'Loughlin and Tickle were our top tacklers. Sean has continued in this vein of form since he has returned. Unfortunately his error rate seems to have increased, which becomes so much more obvious when he does so much work.

As for Danny Orr being slated on here by people that don't like him, I think it's more a case of people having lost their patience with him over the last two years. On this message board this season that has been more criticism for Ian Millward, Maurice Lindsay, Dave Whelan, David Vaealiki, Dennis Moran, Kevin Brown and Mark Calderwood so you can't say he's been pinpointed for abuse.