Orr was a big disapointment for me.
Well to be fair only part of it is down to him as we apired him with players who could not create anything for him to support. plus they were playing behind packs that tended to be struggling.
Over three seasons all we have really seen was a dozen or so games where he looked his best. Not good enough really.
I know him and he is a real top bloke. He built a house when he came and was planning a long stay so its sad that it did not work out.
Lulu - Can't say iu am too sure about it. seems like all or nothing to me so i will wait and give the lad a chance.
As for DV - Who does anyone think will pay him the wages that uncle Mo decided to tempt him here with?
He will be here for the duration.
The best paid waterboy in the world!
Orr
Re: Orr
DV has to be the worst signing we have ever made. Sure there have been worse players, the doc murrays, kolois BUT they were not signed up on such huge contracts.Oh and Fraggle. I have seen DV at fullback. Hard to believe but he's actually a worse fullback than a centre.
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adrenalinxx
- Posts: 1662
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:26 pm
Re: Orr
DV played at Full Back for Wigan once, he kept sliding on the ground when going to catch the ball, looked like he was playing baseball or something.... very strange.cpwigan posted:
Oh and Fraggle. I have seen DV at fullback. Hard to believe but he's actually a worse fullback than a centre.
Re: Orr
Hansen was born here I think and does play for NZ due to his parents but it means in terms of his playing nationality he is a foreigner as much as Fletcher is.adrenalinxx posted:Doesn't Hansen play for NZ under the grandparent rule. I'm sure there was something on Hansen in the WEP a few weeks ago which said he was an English citizen so would not count on the quota if he played for NZ. Hansen has come through the Wigan academy system and lived in England for a long time.DaveO posted:
Hansen (who played for NZ so is now also a Kiwi)
I do think that there could be too many overseas players in the Wigan squad next year.
We will have at least 10 foreign players next season if the proposed signings come off and given we need to make some more signings in addition to those rumoured I can see us having even more than that.
I will actually find it quite hard to get passionate at games about a team with the majority of players on the pitch who are foreign.
I feel so strongly about this that if it were not for my Dad renewing his season ticket already I would seriously conder not renewing mine if the squad ends up as I fear it might.
Dave
Re: Orr
After trawling through the various posts there's a couple of points to make.
Danny Orr is a good player who has under achieved at the club. This may be the players fault, the clubs fault, or the systems we play to do not suite him. Sometimes moves to clubs just don't work, it's just life.
Down to getting rid of Danny and various other players. Brian Noble obviously has a system for playing in mind for next season. What he is doing is now putting the players in place who he thinks are best suited to that system. They may not be the best individuals out there, but maybe in his mind the best players to suite his system. His past record at club level has shown his judgement in players is good and therefore we have to trust him, at the end of the day it's his livelyhood at stake.
Now about overseas players. Brian Noble has a dilema. As coach for Wigan his first priority is to build a team that performs and deliver trophies, full stop. If in his eyes this means investing in overseas talent, then that's his call. As coach of the GB squad he also has a responsibility to bring on the talent we have in the game to a level where we can compete equally with the ANZAC countries. He doesn't have to have a squad full of Wigan players to do that though. Having said that I do beleive we need to invest more in young talent, and perhaps behind the scenes we are. Brian may be filling the squad with overseas players to help develop that talent in a long term plan. His priority now though is to get Wigan competing again at a high standard. That has to be his priority and therefore can understand him surrounding himself with players he think will do the job.
Danny Orr is a good player who has under achieved at the club. This may be the players fault, the clubs fault, or the systems we play to do not suite him. Sometimes moves to clubs just don't work, it's just life.
Down to getting rid of Danny and various other players. Brian Noble obviously has a system for playing in mind for next season. What he is doing is now putting the players in place who he thinks are best suited to that system. They may not be the best individuals out there, but maybe in his mind the best players to suite his system. His past record at club level has shown his judgement in players is good and therefore we have to trust him, at the end of the day it's his livelyhood at stake.
Now about overseas players. Brian Noble has a dilema. As coach for Wigan his first priority is to build a team that performs and deliver trophies, full stop. If in his eyes this means investing in overseas talent, then that's his call. As coach of the GB squad he also has a responsibility to bring on the talent we have in the game to a level where we can compete equally with the ANZAC countries. He doesn't have to have a squad full of Wigan players to do that though. Having said that I do beleive we need to invest more in young talent, and perhaps behind the scenes we are. Brian may be filling the squad with overseas players to help develop that talent in a long term plan. His priority now though is to get Wigan competing again at a high standard. That has to be his priority and therefore can understand him surrounding himself with players he think will do the job.
Re: Orr
Some very good points Andy - I think sometimes the fans forget that a coaches livlihood is on the line and failing at Wigan can mean failing as a coach - look at Graeme West.
However I would add the following.
Noble changed the way the team played when he joined - so unless is going to play a radically different system next season I don't see the need to shed Orr. Fletcher (who we are led to believe is part of the long term future at Wigan) combined with Orr brilliantly in the second half of the season.
It could be argued that had Noble been in charge from the start of the season then we could have been playing on saturday night. As it is - the only top team we didn't beat in the second half of the season was saints.
I am all for bringing in the personel to get the job done - however I don't think that Millard is a good swap for Wagga and neither do I think that the injury prone Leuleui is a good exchange for Orr. Furthermore who is going to cover half back in the event of an injury? Millard?
I think that it is a shame that we have released 2 British players who always gave their all (and wanted to stay) for the club to be replaced by 2 overseas imports - 1 who has yet to really prove himself and another who is well past his "best".
The thing that annoys me the most is that we have far bigger wastes of money on the salary cap than either Orr or Wagga. I can't see Millard being cheap, we have signed Bailey and are alledgely about to sign Withers; when we are still (currently) lumbered with one of the worst Wigan players that I can remember in DV. Why don't we get rid of him to another club? Even if we still have to pay part of his wages.
If Withers is signed we are going to have:
Goulding (Brit)
Withers (Aussie)
Bailey (Aussie)
DV (Kiwi)
McAvoy (Brit)
All down for 2 centre spots - that is provided that Ashton isn't moved (which would probably be one of the most unpopular moves EVER). So we have a mass of cover for one area and none in another. It looks likely that the imports will get the starting spaces leaving British players on the sidelines yet again.
Hopefully things will become clearer as we get closer to next season - however to me it currently doesn't make any sense to let Orr go.
As we the fans have no (real) say in how the club is run; we have little choice but to believe in a fantastic coach who saved us from almost certain relegation.
However I do not want Wigan to become another Bradford and I will miss Danny Orr and Wayne Godwin.
However I would add the following.
Noble changed the way the team played when he joined - so unless is going to play a radically different system next season I don't see the need to shed Orr. Fletcher (who we are led to believe is part of the long term future at Wigan) combined with Orr brilliantly in the second half of the season.
It could be argued that had Noble been in charge from the start of the season then we could have been playing on saturday night. As it is - the only top team we didn't beat in the second half of the season was saints.
I am all for bringing in the personel to get the job done - however I don't think that Millard is a good swap for Wagga and neither do I think that the injury prone Leuleui is a good exchange for Orr. Furthermore who is going to cover half back in the event of an injury? Millard?
I think that it is a shame that we have released 2 British players who always gave their all (and wanted to stay) for the club to be replaced by 2 overseas imports - 1 who has yet to really prove himself and another who is well past his "best".
The thing that annoys me the most is that we have far bigger wastes of money on the salary cap than either Orr or Wagga. I can't see Millard being cheap, we have signed Bailey and are alledgely about to sign Withers; when we are still (currently) lumbered with one of the worst Wigan players that I can remember in DV. Why don't we get rid of him to another club? Even if we still have to pay part of his wages.
If Withers is signed we are going to have:
Goulding (Brit)
Withers (Aussie)
Bailey (Aussie)
DV (Kiwi)
McAvoy (Brit)
All down for 2 centre spots - that is provided that Ashton isn't moved (which would probably be one of the most unpopular moves EVER). So we have a mass of cover for one area and none in another. It looks likely that the imports will get the starting spaces leaving British players on the sidelines yet again.
Hopefully things will become clearer as we get closer to next season - however to me it currently doesn't make any sense to let Orr go.
As we the fans have no (real) say in how the club is run; we have little choice but to believe in a fantastic coach who saved us from almost certain relegation.
However I do not want Wigan to become another Bradford and I will miss Danny Orr and Wayne Godwin.
"And Martin Offiah, trying to make some space, now then..." - Ray French, Wembley 1994
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Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?
Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
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Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?
Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
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Re: Orr
well i say good luck to him, but another bad decision by the men upstairs. and i hope he can speak french because how the hell wel he communicate with julian rinaldi? well i can geuss it like partnering moran again? 
(sorry bit nasty) and if nobby dont want him in his plans then what else is there to do but look else were for employment.
(sorry bit nasty) and if nobby dont want him in his plans then what else is there to do but look else were for employment.Re: Orr
Some equally fair points Matthew, and some I don't necessarilly disagree with, but when Brian Noble came he had to deal with a squad as he inherited, with exception of the odd signing. He came up with a system that worked for the squad he had, which may not have been the way he likes his teams to play. This highlights the genius of the man.
Another consideration is you can only raise players above their game for a short period. Avoiding relegation acted as a target to concentrate the players minds, and help them raise their game. To be honest, with that squad and Noble at the start of the season, I doubt we would have been in the GF, because I doubt we could have kept our game at that level for a full season. We hit form at the right time.
As far as DV is concerned, not a player I'd have at Wigan, and I suspect BN probably doesn't want him there but could be stuck with him. Let's face it which team would take him off our hands?
I'd prefer not to have a full team of imports, or near enough, and ideally would like to see a squad of nearly all Wigan born lads, but if we win trophies with this squad I doubt many people will be worried. The main thing is to get us back on top, and then bring in youngsters when there's more confidence in the camp.
I agree a bit over staffed in the backs, and not much cover in the pack, but I suspect a few more signings and leavings to be had yet we'll just have to wait and see.
Another consideration is you can only raise players above their game for a short period. Avoiding relegation acted as a target to concentrate the players minds, and help them raise their game. To be honest, with that squad and Noble at the start of the season, I doubt we would have been in the GF, because I doubt we could have kept our game at that level for a full season. We hit form at the right time.
As far as DV is concerned, not a player I'd have at Wigan, and I suspect BN probably doesn't want him there but could be stuck with him. Let's face it which team would take him off our hands?
I'd prefer not to have a full team of imports, or near enough, and ideally would like to see a squad of nearly all Wigan born lads, but if we win trophies with this squad I doubt many people will be worried. The main thing is to get us back on top, and then bring in youngsters when there's more confidence in the camp.
I agree a bit over staffed in the backs, and not much cover in the pack, but I suspect a few more signings and leavings to be had yet we'll just have to wait and see.