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shawcross da warrior wrote:i agree that it is really noticable that lockers isnt there....

we all know he doesnt do alot of talking as a captain, but he cartainly makes up with that by showing that actions speak louder than words....

:eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

Hooray for someone else who sees things the way they are

woohooo i got a round of applause....

nathan_rugby wrote:People are basically just basing this on the 45 points we conceded against cats.

He is a good defensive player but imo hansen is far better.

He has made more tackles then lockers and a lot less missed tackles. With also probably less time on the pitch.

It aware to us all that lockers is a defensive player, as is fielden.

All season we have managed with lockers just being a defender so why not stick big stu up in at loose to just defend in the middle of the pitch.
He is a good defender and thats all he does for us.

Also Hansen has an attacking game, he can break tackles for fun and score some tasty trys, Lockers has no attacking game whatsoever,

(IMO he isn't missed, we are as shoddy without him as we are with him)

lockers is by far our best defensive palyer ,get your stas our because im 100% sure hanson as done no were as many tackles ,im taking nothing away from hanson there hes a diffrent style of player

josie andrews wrote: I haven't missed any of the season I haven't missed a bloody game or for the reserves or academy. And I am entitled to my opinion regarding O'Loughlin as are you but don't keep quoting bloody statistics they often don't mean anything and I can't be ar*d with this topic any more because everything you have to say about any topic is law.

Well said, Josie! The way some members of this board articulate their opinions is done with an air of arrogance. Disrespectful, it is. :eusa2:

Ok so Hansen's a better tackler... I'd still rather have BOTH Hansen and Lockers in the team! Maybe then our leaky defence would get shored up.

I agree the defence has gone since Lockers was injured. Hansen is also a very good defensive player and i think if both are on the feild at the same time there will be hardly any tries scored. Its just if the others step up

Well it is clear that some peoples thoughts are why let statistics get in the way of blinkered people.

This is not fact so it should go down well with all you statistic haters.

Lockers is clearly not good enough for Wigan, there now are you happy or should we go back to facts that he his absence has not made one little bit of a difference.

IMO Lockers is and always has been a very poor loose (going) forward.

It will not happen but the team is far better without rather than with.

DaveO wrote:

mario wrote:

DaveO wrote: If we are actually 30+ tackles a game down then whoever has taken his place isn't putting the effort in.

However if you think we have only been defensively bad since he has been injured you must have missed the rest of the season.

Look back how many games we have conceded over 20 points with him IN the side. I think its 9 games. We have conceded 30 or over in four games he played in and over 40 twice.

This suggests to me our recent results are following exactly the same pattern as they have done all season and we are no better or worse defensively in the last three matches than we have been all season.

So you could argue his absence has not been noticed

Dave

You could also argue that Mathers is our best option at full back and giving the captaincy to anyone but Lockers would solve all our problems, but that would also be a load of c**p!

If anyone actually bothers to look at our defensive record with him in the side they will see it is no better than the last three games. That is a fact you can check for yourself not an opinion.

So no, its not a c**p as you put it.

It doesn't surprise me we are getting posts saying we are worse defensively without him but if people checked the facts first they'd realise nothing has changed.

Dave[/quote]





You obviously haven't bothered to look at our defensive record with him in the side, because if we followed the trend of the last 3 games all season we would have conceded another 100 points over the season so far,so obviously the defence has got worse without him.
Many on this message board were quick to blame Lockers poor captaincy for our poor performances.Lots called for Trent Barrett to be made captain because we need a captain to be vocal. So what's improved with Trent as captain? Yesterday Barrett was Livid that he wasn't given the ball to atempt a drop goal. Either he didn't comunicate this to his team or Phil Clarke is right and being a vocal captain makes little or no difference. I suspect Phil clarke having played at the highest level though, might know what he's talking about.

cherry.pie wrote:

mike binder wrote:lockers is by far our best defensive palyer ,get your stas our because im 100% sure hanson as done no were as many tackles ,im taking nothing away from hanson there hes a diffrent style of player

O'Loughlin :

Played: 14
Tries: 1
Meters: 998
Carries: 178
Tackles: 433
Marker Tackles: 53
Missed Tackles: 42
Errors: 15
Penalties: 12

Hansen:

Played: 16
Tries: 5
Meters: 1001
Carries: 154
Tackles: 485
Marker Tackles: 59
Missed Tackles: 16
Errors: 8
Penalties: 7

Surely enough proof that this season Hansen is a much better defensive player, and much better player overall than Sean O'Loughlin. He's ahead in every department and the amount of carries compared to meters shows he makes more impact going forward too.

However we still miss Lockers, as he's our second best defensive player. His defence is strong and we need him back in the side because we can't rely on just Hansen to make the tackles when he doesn't even play a full game.

Your Stats have Hanson playing 2 more games! Hansen is quality,but O'loughlins defence is far better and as i've said before He is a top ten superleague tackler every season!
Stats don't tell the full story though. If you watch O'loughlin when he gets back in the side, I wouldn't mind betting that O'loughlin is First in the tackle and taking the brunt of it far more than any other player.

mario wrote:

cherry.pie wrote:

mike binder wrote:lockers is by far our best defensive palyer ,get your stas our because im 100% sure hanson as done no were as many tackles ,im taking nothing away from hanson there hes a diffrent style of player

O'Loughlin :

Played: 14
Tries: 1
Meters: 998
Carries: 178
Tackles: 433
Marker Tackles: 53
Missed Tackles: 42
Errors: 15
Penalties: 12

Hansen:

Played: 16
Tries: 5
Meters: 1001
Carries: 154
Tackles: 485
Marker Tackles: 59
Missed Tackles: 16
Errors: 8
Penalties: 7

Surely enough proof that this season Hansen is a much better defensive player, and much better player overall than Sean O'Loughlin. He's ahead in every department and the amount of carries compared to meters shows he makes more impact going forward too.

However we still miss Lockers, as he's our second best defensive player. His defence is strong and we need him back in the side because we can't rely on just Hansen to make the tackles when he doesn't even play a full game.

Your Stats have Hanson playing 2 more games! Hansen is quality,but O'loughlins defence is far better and as i've said before He is a top ten superleague tackler every season!
Stats don't tell the full story though. If you watch O'loughlin when he gets back in the side, I wouldn't mind betting that O'loughlin is First in the tackle and taking the brunt of it far more than any other player.

and yet it is plain to see that Lockers is more often than not the 2nd or 3rd man in the tackle, you can tell when is the first man in, 64% of the time he takes someones head off