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[quote="cpwigan"]
Clear message to Pryce though which many seem to be oblivious to.[/quote]

What do you mean? What is the message?

cpwigan wrote:Mmm, interesting theory Dave O. Play in the best team in the league and rarely get your defence tested or play in a poorer team and get your defence tested. Strikes me Ainscough was in the right place to try to improve his defence be it tackling or fielding short kicks which by definition a team has to be losing out re field position for you to be tested.

True, but Cas have looked so bad recently that it would do more harm than good, IMO. You can't really learn to defend a 3-1 overlap.

Some informed views on Rlfans though (Bondi Warrior and Tiny Tim). I am impressed. The likes of myself and Rogues Gallery have very similar views and have seen Ainsy since he was 16 so it looks like some Wigan fans are astute.

I presume he will play in place of Goulding although on form Marsh should get selected and offers cover for several backline position which is important given Carmont's recent fraility.

I trust Madge enough to give both Ainy and Marsh a chance at some point. It will be interesting to see who gets first shot on Friday.

Clear message to Pryce though which many seem to be oblivious to.

I think that message got through a while ago, both to KP and to us.

cpwigan wrote:Mmm, interesting theory Dave O. Play in the best team in the league and rarely get your defence tested or play in a poorer team and get your defence tested.

There is a difference between "getting your defence tested" and facing an impossible job on a weekly basis. He will IMO gain nothing defending three man overlaps time after time.

Strikes me Ainscough was in the right place to try to improve his defence be it tackling or fielding short kicks which by definition a team has to be losing out re field position for you to be tested.

I am sure the opposition are very accommodating and deliberately test Ainscough in the areas he needs to improve on so he can do just that and that is the only kind if pressure they put on the Cas defence, rather than exploiting any other weaknesses in a side with one of the worst defences in the league.

Cas's defence is rubbish across the board and so Ainscough will find himself (as he has done) in impossible positions no player could cover. There is nothing to be gained from that.

I guess we should send Phepls to Cas and perhaps Roberts as neither were rock solid under Noble's poor defensive tactics either. Now we have a good defence they are rarely tested. If we adopt your logic as we know these two have defensive weaknesses they must be being masked now by playing in a better side so they need to get to Cas quick so they can improve.

Some informed views on Rlfans though (Bondi Warrior and Tiny Tim). I am impressed. The likes of myself and Rogues Gallery have very similar views and have seen Ainsy since he was 16 so it looks like some Wigan fans are astute.

Or perhaps you (and they) may be wrong?

Dave

DaveO wrote:

cpwigan wrote:Mmm, interesting theory Dave O. Play in the best team in the league and rarely get your defence tested or play in a poorer team and get your defence tested.

There is a difference between "getting your defence tested" and facing an impossible job on a weekly basis. He will IMO gain nothing defending three man overlaps time after time.

But playing in the reserves for Wigan was not going to improve his defence either. Doing his best in an 'impossible' situation will help him more than doing nothing at all. While he was not required by Wigan it makes sense to send him somewhere else.

Personally I don't see what the fuss is about regards to loaning players to lower clubs in the Super League, at the moment Wigan cannot loan players to any clubs higher because they are top of the league and surely that is a good thing. Players wanting to break into the Wigan might have to work their way up through a team lower down the league what is the problem

Dave you seem to have a really bad opinion on Castleford. Yes, they are devastated by injuries but rarely have they been destroyed by teams. Our win v them was very hard earned with magic from Amos being crucial. They held Huddersfield for long periods of the game. In 2009 they finished in the top 8, 2 points behind Wigan.

I think this 3 attackers running at Ainsy constantly is Walter Mitty like in reality. Even for the great Wigan RLFC Ainsy will have to defend overlaps which Goulding has been doing so superbly. It is possible to defend overlaps Likewise, Ainsy would have got practice fielding kicks for Cas because that is his biggest weakness.

I struggle to see the logic in fans RIGHTLTY saying reserve RL etc is to easy and does not stretch players but when they are stretched by going out on loan we have fans saying oh no, why send my favourite player to such a horrid place. Personally, I think it is a great move and should do any player worth his place in a future Wigan RLFC the world of good.

I think the fans who raised logical concerns did so on the basis of years of watching a player and seeing the good and bad. The bottom line with any player is that they will look good in walk in the park victories but it is the tight games/the key games where one decent play/one bad play is the difference between victory or defeat that they truly show their worth. Many fans are rightly concerned that v the best opposition, Ainsy could be a weakness not a strength. I don't think with Ainsy in the team we would have beaten Saints on Good Friday. What say you Dave?

cpwigan wrote: Dave you seem to have a really bad opinion on Castleford. Yes, they are devastated by injuries but rarely have they been destroyed by teams.

I get the impression that a lot of Madge's concerns relate to off-field issues at Cas, connected to the reason why Chase & Westerman were dropped "for disciplinary reasons". As many of us know, Ainy would be easily influenced by that sort of environment.

As far as defending high kicks goes, from what I've seen, he's only made one mistake in that department in all his time at Cas. The highlights won't show those that didn't lead to tries, admittedly, but neither will they show all the ones he dealt with competently.

GeoffN wrote:As far as defending high kicks goes, from what I've seen, he's only made one mistake in that department in all his time at Cas. The highlights won't show those that didn't lead to tries, admittedly, but neither will they show all the ones he dealt with competently.

I worried I might jinx some players if I say this but I think Wigan players have looked better under the high ball. Roberts was a bit shaky at times last season but has regain confidence and dealt with kicks well. I've been more impressed with Darrell Goulding, not a winger by trade and not the tallest of players but has looked calm under the high kicks and has taken some kicks very well.

Teams will kick to Ainscough but he just has to deal with it. If he does well eventually they will stop kicking to him as often, the last thing the opposition want to do is give the ball directly to someone with the attacking treat of Ainscough. Just look at how many teams used to put high kicks in for Radlinski...very few because he dealt with them so well it was a pointless tactic.

Last season both Roberts and Ainscough were weak defensively.

We persevered with Roberts and look at the results!

At least give Ainscough some sort of chance because, if he responds in the same way, the opposition will have a tactical nightmare defending the gaps that these two alone are capable of opening.

A49 wrote:Last season both Roberts and Ainscough were weak defensively.

We persevered with Roberts and look at the results!

At least give Ainscough some sort of chance because, if he responds in the same way, the opposition will have a tactical nightmare defending the gaps that these two alone are capable of opening.

But surely the difference is that Roberts was a really classy player in the NRL and it was poor coaching and conditioning that led to his poor form last year, not to mention moving himself and his family half way around the world.

Ainscough on the other hand doesn't seem to be playing any different to what he was last year, and he's had the same off season with Madge etc and he's still been training, largely, with the first team. I'm not saying that he can't improve, I just think that Roberts is, and always will be, the better player.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Ainscough improve and start scoring tries for fun, as he was last year. But he needs to improve first and start taking in what he's being taught, if what CPWigan is saying is true.

Sutty wrote:

A49 wrote:Last season both Roberts and Ainscough were weak defensively.

We persevered with Roberts and look at the results!

At least give Ainscough some sort of chance because, if he responds in the same way, the opposition will have a tactical nightmare defending the gaps that these two alone are capable of opening.

But surely the difference is that Roberts was a really classy player in the NRL and it was poor coaching and conditioning that led to his poor form last year, not to mention moving himself and his family half way around the world.

Ainscough on the other hand doesn't seem to be playing any different to what he was last year, and he's had the same off season with Madge etc and he's still been training, largely, with the first team. I'm not saying that he can't improve, I just think that Roberts is, and always will be, the better player.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Ainscough improve and start scoring tries for fun, as he was last year. But he needs to improve first and start taking in what he's being taught, if what CPWigan is saying is true.

I don't think anyone's saying Ainy is better than Roberts (this season) - the question is if we have better wingers available at the moment, with both Roberts & Goulding out. For tomorrow, it's pretty much a choice between Marsh & Ainscough, which is a pretty close call, IMO, though I'm sure Madge will give Ainy the first chance. He'll need to take it, though; he's got plenty of competition for that spot.