WiganWarriorsFans.com

Exactly Nezza re Industry / RL watching population. The 1950s boom came on the back of vibrant industry. That long since went and Sellafield is not the force it once was.

Cumbrians are very propud people but even from village to neighbouring village they will oppose each other rather than combine.

None of this means Cumbria is not a vital RL area and we have to get away from the thinking SL presence is the be all and end all. Clubs like ours spend a lot of time in Cumbria which emphasises just how valuable the region is to RL.

yep cp - vital is the right word. There's been a huge numbers of fantastic Cumbrians over the years - our OWN Lee Mossop an example and our club are right into the whole of Cumbria, fostering the game up there, as its recognised as a huge amateur league area.

What has to be addressed by the League is to make the quality level as high as pos,and to encourage the grass roots of the game. It's not the best for the area to lose all their top players to teams outside of the region, which has happened in recent times.

Another thing to beware, is the rugby union are also targeting Cumbria for their own development - hoping to capitalise on the disarray at Whitehaven & Workington.

cpwigan wrote:I would disagree. Cumbria will never join together and support a Cumbrian SL Club. Cumbrians are very insular people and parochial. No Cumbrian club can stand alone to become a SL club but that is what they aspire to. A Cumbrian SL team probably closer to Haven / Workington than Barrow with all 3 clubs retaining their identity in a lower tier is ideal.

CP, you're generalising a bit here.

The same was said about Catalan Dragons. Fact is that they draw a good percentage of their spectators from towns who would die rather than support just purely Perpignan.

My point is that, within Cumbria, there is a ground swell of support for RL that isn't really reflected in spectator numbers at the various semi professional clubs. RL culture and history exists in abundance and there are many who would like to watch the game played at the highest level in good stadia. I reckon with the right backing and marketing RL could be the bigger than even fell running and sheep dog trials.

Harry Edgar regularly states this to be the case Jobo and I respect his opinion. He is certainly not generalising when he makes the point I reitterated.

As I said Cumbria is vital but IMO it is vital from an amateur perspective more than a professional one with the fans being RL devotees being far better attending big RL events and perhaps some special oneoff matches in Cumbria.

RL in Cumbria is strong without top level pro RL so why does it need it? It would not change the strength that already exists in the region IMO.

Merging clubs to come up with regional franchises makes perfect sense to an adminstrator sat in an office, moving clubs and numbers and projected incomes around a map like chess pieces on a board. The reality however is just marred at a fundamental level by tribal issues.

It would be to all intents and purposes be like liquidating Leigh and St Helens and expecting Wigan to assimilate all of their fans. It just wouldn't happen - at least for a generation and longer because of the percieved petty jealousys, losing face and terrortorial issues. It might make sense, but when has that ever been a part of supporting a club?

I have family members who even now refuse point blank to go to watch Wigan play at the DW becuase of the sleight they percieved when we moved from Central park. It defies logic and reason - but that's the level of stubbornness you're up agaainst.

jobo wrote:

GeoffN wrote:

jobo wrote:Bit of a serious note here, Cumbria deserves a super league side. There are many people in Barrow, Workington, Whitehaven etc who remember the glory days. There's a great tradition for RL in Cumbria, bit of a sleeping giant really, just waiting for the spark.

Buit they don't support their clubs, and didn't even when they were in the top flight. When Workington were in Super League, they averaged about 2,000. Haven were roughly the same when they were in the top division in the 80's.

Yip, you're right as it stands at the moment but back in the 1950's and I quote a piece about Willie Horne of Barrow,

"On two occasions at least he beat a peerless Wigan side at Craven Park virtually on his own before 20,000 spectators (Barrow population 60,000, allowing for babies and pensioners, they were all at the match!). He revolutionised the game with his side foot place kicking, now the norm in both codes and the ability to pass a heavy often wet rugby ball like a bullet twenty yards straight to either wing, missing out his centre three-quarters if need be, with the accuracy of any American quarter-back.

Don't forget, St Smellys, despite all they've acheived in the past 10 yrs, have never averaged more than 11k attendances. It just makes you think what they would get, had they suffered relegation.

The potential is there, it's the will from RFL that seems to be missing.

Saints have averaged over 11,000 for the past two seasons.

jobo wrote:

cpwigan wrote:I would disagree. Cumbria will never join together and support a Cumbrian SL Club. Cumbrians are very insular people and parochial. No Cumbrian club can stand alone to become a SL club but that is what they aspire to. A Cumbrian SL team probably closer to Haven / Workington than Barrow with all 3 clubs retaining their identity in a lower tier is ideal.

CP, you're generalising a bit here.

The same was said about Catalan Dragons. Fact is that they draw a good percentage of their spectators from towns who would die rather than support just purely Perpignan.

My point is that, within Cumbria, there is a ground swell of support for RL that isn't really reflected in spectator numbers at the various semi professional clubs. RL culture and history exists in abundance and there are many who would like to watch the game played at the highest level in good stadia. I reckon with the right backing and marketing RL could be the bigger than even fell running and sheep dog trials.

The french team has always drawn a good crowd and been successful in its own league before it joined SL.

weststand-rich wrote:Merging clubs to come up with regional franchises makes perfect sense to an adminstrator sat in an office, moving clubs and numbers and projected incomes around a map like chess pieces on a board. The reality however is just marred at a fundamental level by tribal issues.

It would be to all intents and purposes be like liquidating Leigh and St Helens and expecting Wigan to assimilate all of their fans. It just wouldn't happen - at least for a generation and longer because of the percieved petty jealousys, losing face and terrortorial issues. It might make sense, but when has that ever been a part of supporting a club?

I have family members who even now refuse point blank to go to watch Wigan play at the DW becuase of the sleight they percieved when we moved from Central park. It defies logic and reason - but that's the level of stubbornness you're up agaainst.

The only way to merge in Cumbria would be to keep all the remaining clubs as a feeder to a Cumbrian SL Club. Personally, I believe Cumbria is fine with or without a SL presence.

No straw damn us wrote:

jobo wrote:

GeoffN wrote: Buit they don't support their clubs, and didn't even when they were in the top flight. When Workington were in Super League, they averaged about 2,000. Haven were roughly the same when they were in the top division in the 80's.

Yip, you're right as it stands at the moment but back in the 1950's and I quote a piece about Willie Horne of Barrow,

"On two occasions at least he beat a peerless Wigan side at Craven Park virtually on his own before 20,000 spectators (Barrow population 60,000, allowing for babies and pensioners, they were all at the match!). He revolutionised the game with his side foot place kicking, now the norm in both codes and the ability to pass a heavy often wet rugby ball like a bullet twenty yards straight to either wing, missing out his centre three-quarters if need be, with the accuracy of any American quarter-back.

Don't forget, St Smellys, despite all they've acheived in the past 10 yrs, have never averaged more than 11k attendances. It just makes you think what they would get, had they suffered relegation.

The potential is there, it's the will from RFL that seems to be missing.

Saints have averaged over 11,000 for the past two seasons.

Should have put barely, rather than never.

pedro wrote:

jobo wrote:

cpwigan wrote:I would disagree. Cumbria will never join together and support a Cumbrian SL Club. Cumbrians are very insular people and parochial. No Cumbrian club can stand alone to become a SL club but that is what they aspire to. A Cumbrian SL team probably closer to Haven / Workington than Barrow with all 3 clubs retaining their identity in a lower tier is ideal.

CP, you're generalising a bit here.

The same was said about Catalan Dragons. Fact is that they draw a good percentage of their spectators from towns who would die rather than support just purely Perpignan.

My point is that, within Cumbria, there is a ground swell of support for RL that isn't really reflected in spectator numbers at the various semi professional clubs. RL culture and history exists in abundance and there are many who would like to watch the game played at the highest level in good stadia. I reckon with the right backing and marketing RL could be the bigger than even fell running and sheep dog trials.

The french team has always drawn a good crowd and been successful in its own league before it joined SL.

Yes there was a team in Perpignan and yes they were a top French side.

The SL side was purposely called Catalan as this is the regional name and cultural identity that many in sw France associate with and are extremely loyal to. Personally I think the same psychology would work eventually, for people from Barrow/Haven and Town, especially if the team had some success.