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TonyH wrote:

jolleymike wrote:I agree on most of what you say pal, but how can we go from being a good attacking team and a half decent defensive team to how bad we are now, surely the players are the ones on the pitch and they have to answer to us fans but for me we've took a step backwards since McGuire left we have lost the leader influence

Because the players are not as fit or as disciplined and regimented in defence as they were under Maguire, the holes behind the ruck were a disgrace and the slide and scramble defence out wide was worrying.

CP is bang on the money here, we seem impressed with tight under pressure games where errors are aplenty. Madge would have had that game tied up by 60 mins. Lauaki? Do me a favour Wane.

Tony, We appear to agree on all this. So why the antipathy ?

The game was exciting in much the same way that Premier League football is 'exciting' i.e. Much of what happens is a result of poor play rather than good play and the result was in doubt until the last minute, though with 10 to go I had a fairly good idea how it was going to go.

Both teams played "Schoolboy Amateur RL" according to the above analyses?

BriH wrote:Both teams played "Schoolboy Amateur RL" according to the above analyses?

Both team Bri were pathetic; the games was littered with mistakes. Classic British sport, Brits get excited when mediocre meets mediocre then embarassed when mediocre has to play world class.

mickw wrote:this michael mcguire love in is beginning to wear abit thin,he came in shook the place up,stole a march on the rest of the league with our wrestling tactic`s and won the comp.but the second year was far from great,we played poorly for much of the season having brought the players he wanted from aus.he got found out by other coaches who played us at our own game and rather than kicking on
we did`nt build on the previous season,he realised the game was up and fired off at the first oppertunity showing no loyalty to the club that gave him his break,whilst i recognise the good he did winning silverware in both seasons the rugby i watched last season was`nt great by any means.

It was a sight better than we are being given by our current coach.
And it's Maguire.

To say that I was upset with yesterdays outcome is putting it mildy.Travelling back down the M6 I had to pull in at Sandbach services in order to cool down as I was driving like a man demented.Passionate we where clever we where not.It's no good me blaming just the one person as I was last night namely Lauaki.It all starts and stops with Wanes selection policy.We have an immense player in Jeff Lima who on occasion does give the odd penalty but makes good hard yards in offence and is not prone to losing his head like Lauaki.And what pray is the point of a ten minute spell from Tuson? Not really the lads fault.Hock was outstanding and though he was blowing hard it was preferable to have a blowing Hock than it was to keep Lauaki on the field.God I could go on and on about the good points and the bad points of last night but the more I try to disseminate the pro's and cons the angrier I get.So it makes more sense that I refrain from adding anything more or the moderator will be giving me a red card.Sorry to say it but on the evidence of last night it is clear to a blind man that SW is clearly not up to the job at hand.He clearly learned nothing from MM.Other than arrogance.Arrogance comes with success Mr Wane one thing I fear will not be achieved under your tenure.Sadly I called for him to be given the season.Now I hope we do a stains and get rid whilst the season is still young.I cannot afford to keep travelling along the M6 only to see us being the nearly men.

mickw wrote:this michael mcguire love in is beginning to wear abit thin,he came in shook the place up,stole a march on the rest of the league with our wrestling tactic`s and won the comp.but the second year was far from great,we played poorly for much of the season having brought the players he wanted from aus.he got found out by other coaches who played us at our own game and rather than kicking on
we did`nt build on the previous season,he realised the game was up and fired off at the first oppertunity showing no loyalty to the club that gave him his break,whilst i recognise the good he did winning silverware in both seasons the rugby i watched last season was`nt great by any means.

Seemed to recall we won the CC for the first time in many years, nearly a decade. Won most of our games and screwed up at the end re SL BUT the double was there for the taking. Incidentally, it was far more than wrestling, defence became science and art combined.

I went into every game under Madge expecting to win, knowing if we played to our potential we would win. 2012, I am terrified Wakey could turn Wane's Wigan over. A Wigan that should be better than 2011, 2010.

Pre 2012 I was confident of winning v anybody. Now I am not confident of beating anybody. I think the opposition smell the scent of victory v us in 2012. Under Madge they hated playing us.

mickw wrote:this michael mcguire love in is beginning to wear abit thin,he came in shook the place up,stole a march on the rest of the league with our wrestling tactic`s and won the comp.but the second year was far from great,we played poorly for much of the season having brought the players he wanted from aus.he got found out by other coaches who played us at our own game and rather than kicking on
we did`nt build on the previous season,he realised the game was up and fired off at the first oppertunity showing no loyalty to the club that gave him his break,whilst i recognise the good he did winning silverware in both seasons the rugby i watched last season was`nt great by any means.

I think you're right here in the sense that the other coaches did wise up and strategically started to nullify some of Wigans ruck dominance. Sometimes it worked well - against Wire when the team were jaded and hungover for example.

I'd disagree with you though Mick when you say we didn't improve - at the tail end of year 2 MM, we just ran out of bodies.

I don't actually think we're that bad or that far off the benchmark. We just need to revert back to the three man tackle technique we previously used. Don't hold your breath here - that would require SW to tactitly admit his changes haven't been as sucessful as he'd hoped.

Mick IMO, although we lost the likes of Hoff and Joel all our young players are a year closer to their peak. Hock is a bonus and several youngsters are far closer to first team football than in 2011.

If I was critical of Madge it would be that he did not rest a player per game later in the season and give youngsters more opportunities. Other than that I was ecstatic when Wane gotr the job as I though great, continuity, fantastic platform. The new coach and players know the systems, minimal changes etc and a great season.

We signed some fantastic youngsters at the end of last season. The current U16's are similarly great prospects. Far better they emerge in a hugely successful era amongst a squad of winners. I never envisaged Waney would want to completely transform the playing system that had worked so well. Tinker at the margins YES but rip it up and start again. No.

I coached a development team v another development team (obviously) this week. The frightening thing is the way Wigan and Wire approached thje game was akin to those teenagers playing their first, second, third ever game of RL.

Well something isn't right and CP may be correctly blaming SW's coaching ability.

You got to say though that Warrington were equally as guilty of schoolboy errors and they are coached by a bloke whose won just about everything in the British game and turned Warrington from a joke team into a great side.

It definitely needs fixing and the fix should start with the coach taking a long hard look at the effect he is having on the team. Is he a help or a hindrance???

At the moment, one week it looks like he's got the team playing excellent Rugby, then the week after, as CP says they look amateurish. He should have kept his trap shut about Lauiki in the interview after the game and turned the question into a positive. Hate it when any coach says things like, " He's hurting, thinks he's lost us the game, he's been great blah, blah , blah". He should have turned round and said he takes full responsibility for the performance and that he's going to get it right.

Still have confidence in him and hope he succeeds but it's just starting to look like he lacks the intellectual ability to do the job. Another question I'd pose is, were does Iestyn Harris stand in all this??