WiganWarriorsFans.com

cpwigan wrote:I cannot remember if it was Jack Gibson or Wayne Bennett who said the art of coaching is to create a game plan that suits the players at your disposal rather than trying to make those players fit your game plan. I am not sure we do that and the majority of our players are not suited to our current game plan bar Sam for whom it is ideal.

I also think Blake Green fits the mould well as another player in the line with a very strong run/pass option that makes the expansive game hard to defend. Tommy was a bit more like this for us last year, which I think is why we struggled with him out too. MM maybe offers this threat too at dummy half.

There is no real offloader either on the fringes (maybe Gelling) which helps open up the type of spread attack Wane prefers as that runner has to be accounted for by defenders more so, so opens up more space. However, what we do have when Sam and Blake are fit and in form is some very good line running/footwork 2nd rowers (Faz being the shining example) who can take great advantage of the space our run/pass threats open up. When someone is out of the team/out of form our 2nd row don't look as potent as attacking weapons in Wane's structure.

When it does all work perfectly with all fit/in form it is great to watch, so credit Wane for that part of what we see our side do. I just hope we have all in place to win trophies, or adapt sufficiently to do what we couldn't last season in those big decisive games.

I liked Madge and I like Wane.However that being said Madge no longer coaches us Shaun Wane does.We can agree to disagree about the coaching styles of both.We have those in the Madge camp and those that are staunch Wane supporters.But no matter the debate we are all first and foremost Wigan supporters no matter how many coaches come and go.We want the very best from a coach no matter who he his.Will this debate continue should we win the challenge cup or the Grand Final or both for that matter.I suspect not!For what it's worth I think that those opposed to Wane will jump on the band wagon if either or both of the above happened.Support the club even if you don't suppor the coach.

And If the cupboard is bare at the end of the season, where next?

To be honest if SW delivers the CC or GF it would be very churlish to criticise him or anybody for that matter. Although, that and more never stopped Dorahay getting the boot.

As I say if a coach delivers the CC or GF then it is hard / churlish to be critical. Nor, should we expect any less given the legacy created by decades of success and the Madge era setting up the club for more. Wigan RLFC standards are incredibly high.

I am not sure your premise holds true Kooch. Dorahay proved that. Indeed legendary players gave up trying at times and literally threw the RT Final v Cas, almost screwed the CC winning run and complained far more bitterly and with venom than fans on forums ever do which makes a mockery of happy clappers elsewhere who hate any critcical posts.

Oddly, I saw not one person at the DW screaming support for the club, Wane or anybody/anything v Bradford for the majority of that game. Grumbles everywhere and even booing.

You can go back to George Fairbairn or Clarke/Mcinnes where success did not mean much in terms of fans decrying their loss of jobs.

If Shaun Wane buils on the legacy he inherited he will be a hero BUT most happy clappers will turn on him or any coach in an instant unless he does and 'biblically' deny ever doing so. I prefer being honest.

I loved Madge, his tactics, energy, motivation, passion etc. was immense and he showed the way forward, however as some posters are quick to criticise players for he did leave us as soon as a job came up back home not completing his contract. I don't hold that against Madge at all or players for that matter as I understand and appreciate it is a short career and just like we all do in our jobs you look after number 1 ultimately. Madge has gone on to be arguably one of the Current top 5 Coaches in the world. I know SW is not everyone's favourite, mine included, but he has kept us more than competitive with numerous key players leaving and injuries. Last season saw us playing some of the best RL we have played since the Golden era and until that Exiles game we were on fire. We lost Tommy, even though he came back but was unfit, Sam didn't play in the play off semi, Finch's form dipped as did Hock, which all had an impact on the end of season failure. In the CC when we lost to Leeds, we had just got back in the game after a pretty average performance until a disgraceful decision from Thaler put a nail in that coffin. Some of you might think they are excuses but for me they are more reasons. SW does still need to step up in the big games but for me so do the players, luckily for Madge none of the 'reasons' I have just given came into play for Madge, is that great coaching or luck, think I know what my answer is!!

cpwigan wrote:

To be honest if SW delivers the CC or GF it would be very churlish to criticise him or anybody for that matter. Although, that and more never stopped Dorahay getting the boot.

As I say if a coach delivers the CC or GF then it is hard / churlish to be critical. Nor, should we expect any less given the legacy created by decades of success and the Madge era setting up the club for more. Wigan RLFC standards are incredibly high.

I am not sure your premise holds true Kooch. Dorahay proved that. Indeed legendary players gave up trying at times and literally threw the RT Final v Cas, almost screwed the CC winning run and complained far more bitterly and with venom than fans on forums ever do which makes a mockery of happy clappers elsewhere who hate any critcical posts.

Oddly, I saw not one person at the DW screaming support for the club, Wane or anybody/anything v Bradford for the majority of that game. Grumbles everywhere and even booing.

You can go back to George Fairbairn or Clarke/Mcinnes where success did not mean much in terms of fans decrying their loss of jobs.

If Shaun Wane buils on the legacy he inherited he will be a hero BUT most happy clappers will turn on him or any coach in an instant unless he does and 'biblically' deny ever doing so. I prefer being honest.

You honestly do not mean that some supporters on here will turn on Wane if we do not win anything this season and will not admit they were praising him.

Tbh this is inverted to the usual norm on here. You know the one criticizes a new signing like they did with Richards, Coley, Carmont, Deacon etc but when they came good no one ever slagged them off. If we fail to win anything this season then the horde will rise as it does against a coach.

I do have faith in Wane winning something this season i think the side is good enough and he is learning not to play players when not fit. Sam is the obvious one and also he is resting players more this season which maybe forced on him with injuries but i do believe his letting players rest more and not rush them back. Widnes game is a massive game now on our season given the last 2 games. Win that well and with Lockers and Sam back we might just get a cup.

I also think he is doing a great job. Not sure if anyone as mentioned lately how the WHINOES won the league the last two seasons but they seem to rest a lot of players through the season injured my ass. Well lets hope we have learnt something and the players we have rested and allowed to have ops will all be back at the business end fully fit and recharged. Lets face it before we started resting players and allowed players to have ops we where blowing teams away by half time nobody could live with us. Bring on the CC and the GF come on you CW CHERRY AND WHITE lets beat that WHINOES SHITE.

You honestly do not mean that some supporters on here will turn on Wane if we do not win anything this season and will not admit they were praising him.

On every forum, across all 4 stands of the DW and in every Wigan pub fans will turn on any Wigan coach who does not deliver success and yet the majority will deny ever doing so.

I am not sure fans on this forum or any other all have a 'universal' opinion on any player. One of the strengths of this forum is that people think for themselves and express their opinions. Some here will support players no matter what, some will support a player just because somebody else criticises him, some will have a balanced view and others although I have yet to see it will be negative about every players come what may. How long a player is given varies. There is no norm here.

Just a couple of examples;

I consistently never rated Cameron Phelps or Richard Mathers yet many others did. There are posters here who will support players through thick and thin. You tend to get these posters more than alwayd negative posters. I do not know any who are always negative. Hence the norm here = differing opinions.

Posters do change their opinions, Medlocke was once anti Lockers but is now very much pro Lockers. IIRC, the players you mentioned all had periods of positive / negative reaction. However, all 4 had mainly positive praise / support.

Re Resting. If resting meant no LLS but led to a SL GF or a CC victory then that would be fantastic IMO. I think other factors need addressing too but if Wane wins either the CC or SL GF win then IMO he has thoroughly earned himself a new contract.

Re Resting. No idea how old posters are but can you recall the Challenge Cup competition when teams reached the final then literally rested up losing most of their games in the run up. It resulted in no CC win far more than a CC win.

I personally think the rest issue is relevant but moreso giving youngsters planned opportunities to strengthen our squad because the best laid plans etc are sometimes thrown out due to misfortune. Some may say why rest players when injuries will force them to rest etc. I personally disagree with that view and think under SL rules resting and giving youngsters opportunities is worth far more than the LLS if it helps deliver a CC / GF win.

However, strategy is more important IMO. Leeds strategy in terms of how they play has been proven to achieve success in GFs; Likewise Madge's strategy did whereas Saints seems not to

stegy wrote:I also think he is doing a great job. Not sure if anyone as mentioned lately how the WHINOES won the league the last two seasons but they seem to rest a lot of players through the season injured my ass. Well lets hope we have learnt something and the players we have rested and allowed to have ops will all be back at the business end fully fit and recharged. Lets face it before we started resting players and allowed players to have ops we where blowing teams away by half time nobody could live with us. Bring on the CC and the GF come on you CW CHERRY AND WHITE lets beat that WHINOES SHITE.

By in large I echo your sentiments by and large and completely agree that we should take opportunities to get players fixed up during periods of the regular season to give them the best possible chance of being good to go in late August/September/early October.

However, for the sake of fairness and balance I'm not sure I agree with the part in bold. There isn't much evidence to support that Leeds followed a deliberate resting tactic in 2012. Actually 2 very key players in terms of points scoring played all their games (Sinfield and Hall) and many others played the majority of games or missed a large chunk of games in one run (suggesting injury, not resting). See http://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/seaso ... etail.html for details.

Wire are much more likely to 'rest' their supposed 'key' players in my opinion. Their players tend to miss more games in ones and twos than Leeds key players.

Any which way, those teams won the finals last year. Whatever works. Personally I think we can win the LLS from the position we're in and get the squad in position for CC & GF assaults, just like Wire did last year. Are young players have shown enough to give our squad great depth. The key is using them correctly, not doing what we did at Widnes last year for example - a move we only just got away with this time - a lesson maybe Wane didn't learn, but thats not to say he won't learn his lesson on how to play semi-finals - I really hope he does.