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wonder how seeing the fan base walk out because we were losing us going to effected the young uns.

fair play to Cass they shut williams down and kept the pressure on the youngsters (which caused some errors) however the first twenty shows how much of their game is just confidence.

A healthy dose of realism might be in order.
Yes, we have the worst injury crisis in our history (probably). Yes - we suffered the most useless referee currently around (offside? just forget it). Yes - Castleford will probably implode before the end of August but look at what happened on the pitch.
I'm guessing that George was injured, because he just dropped out of the game for about 50% of it and Tommy simply can't run a match on his own.
Our squad players - Powell, Clubb, Tautai, Isa - who we want to step up and control a match can't make that step.
Our big props (Big Frank and Mr T) are just that and nothing else - big props.
We have young talent that may just be the future - Marshall, Forsyth, Gregson but they can't affect the outcome as yet.
Farrell, Tompkins and Escare were outstanding but without organisation in the rest of the team, that hard work counts for nothing.

I don't think the season is gone and we will come back but tonight should have taught the coaching staff a hard lesson. Castleford are an ugly side built in Daryl Powell's image. When they were under the cosh, they slowed the game down by making sure that the third tackler came in late but legally and was the last to get off legally. There could be no quick play the ball. When they were on top, only two men went into the tackle so they could defend with ease. We weren't bright enough or well-coached enough to combat that.
That was the worst performance of the past few weeks and if we don't learn and learn quickly, then there are problems ahead, which stuffing Saints may only paper over the cracks.

We still have nothing to fear or worry about, get some bodies back and we will beat them all!!

Southern Softy wrote:A healthy dose of realism might be in order.
Yes, we have the worst injury crisis in our history (probably). Yes - we suffered the most useless referee currently around (offside? just forget it). Yes - Castleford will probably implode before the end of August but look at what happened on the pitch.
I'm guessing that George was injured, because he just dropped out of the game for about 50% of it and Tommy simply can't run a match on his own.
Our squad players - Powell, Clubb, Tautai, Isa - who we want to step up and control a match can't make that step.
Our big props (Big Frank and Mr T) are just that and nothing else - big props.
We have young talent that may just be the future - Marshall, Forsyth, Gregson but they can't affect the outcome as yet.
Farrell, Tompkins and Escare were outstanding but without organisation in the rest of the team, that hard work counts for nothing.

I don't think the season is gone and we will come back but tonight should have taught the coaching staff a hard lesson. Castleford are an ugly side built in Daryl Powell's image. When they were under the cosh, they slowed the game down by making sure that the third tackler came in late but legally and was the last to get off legally. There could be no quick play the ball. When they were on top, only two men went into the tackle so they could defend with ease. We weren't bright enough or well-coached enough to combat that.
That was the worst performance of the past few weeks and if we don't learn and learn quickly, then there are problems ahead, which stuffing Saints may only paper over the cracks.

The injuries are masking some problems, mainly the front row of the pack. They have not had the better of the opposition since (and including) Hudds and have not suffered an injury crisis with only Sutton, the junior member, out for a few weeks.

So I agree with most of what you say and with what Ian said above. The only disagreement I have is I think Tauati deserves some credit as he is the only front rower who causes problems at the moment but not because of his size/strength but his mobility. The rest of them are an issue.

With a team as depleted as we are you might have expected to lose to an in-form Cas but to draw v Hudds and lose to the likes of Leeds and Hull in the manner we did? Those results are why we have a mini-crisis on our hands. In each of these games you can point to basic mistakes by senior players, such as Gells shooting out of the line and TL missing one on one tackle v Hull that cost tries or Joel T last week putting us on the back foot.

We should be putting this loss dowen as a game too far with an injury his side but instead we have an issue because of our own stupid play and a front row that got bullied in the previous few games.

All this talk of Micky Mac having to earn his place back? We need his toughness back ASAP. That is no slight against Powell but rather recognition that the props need someone to help them get on top.

Hi
A newbie here, imprisoned in the USA for now.! Anyway I see teams signing loan players all the time, are Wigan up to the quota for signings?
To go into a season with 2 centre's, + 1 proper winger ie. 'Burgess' is bad management it seems. What about trying to get 'Charnley' back for the summer etc
cheers

Just looked at the squads
Cas's shirt squad number from full back to left wing all added together is 15.
Wigan's shirt numbers full back to left wing is 145.

Yes proud of the effort but so frustrating when we are missing 8 of our first 17.
We need players back and soon if we are to start winning.

kas wrote:Hi
A newbie here, imprisoned in the USA for now.! Anyway I see teams signing loan players all the time, are Wigan up to the quota for signings?
To go into a season with 2 centre's, + 1 proper winger ie. 'Burgess' is bad management it seems. What about trying to get 'Charnley' back for the summer etc
cheers

No idea about loan signings or if we can afford it. With Gildart out for three months you might hope for one as Gelling plus inexperienced centre partner is not a good prospect for that length of time.

We have been like this for a few seasons now. We had Sarginson, Gelling and Thornley in one recent season when Thornely was due to be out for at least half of it as centres and that was it. We have more props and forwards with experience than you can shake a stick at plus several young players looking ready to step up but the backs are paper thin on depth.

People now talking of Tierney as if he is a senior player who is missing sums it up when really he has only just broken onto the scene.

DaveO wrote:

Southern Softy wrote:A healthy dose of realism might be in order.
Yes, we have the worst injury crisis in our history (probably). Yes - we suffered the most useless referee currently around (offside? just forget it). Yes - Castleford will probably implode before the end of August but look at what happened on the pitch.
I'm guessing that George was injured, because he just dropped out of the game for about 50% of it and Tommy simply can't run a match on his own.
Our squad players - Powell, Clubb, Tautai, Isa - who we want to step up and control a match can't make that step.
Our big props (Big Frank and Mr T) are just that and nothing else - big props.
We have young talent that may just be the future - Marshall, Forsyth, Gregson but they can't affect the outcome as yet.
Farrell, Tompkins and Escare were outstanding but without organisation in the rest of the team, that hard work counts for nothing.

I don't think the season is gone and we will come back but tonight should have taught the coaching staff a hard lesson. Castleford are an ugly side built in Daryl Powell's image. When they were under the cosh, they slowed the game down by making sure that the third tackler came in late but legally and was the last to get off legally. There could be no quick play the ball. When they were on top, only two men went into the tackle so they could defend with ease. We weren't bright enough or well-coached enough to combat that.
That was the worst performance of the past few weeks and if we don't learn and learn quickly, then there are problems ahead, which stuffing Saints may only paper over the cracks.

The injuries are masking some problems, mainly the front row of the pack. They have not had the better of the opposition since (and including) Hudds and have not suffered an injury crisis with only Sutton, the junior member, out for a few weeks.

So I agree with most of what you say and with what Ian said above. The only disagreement I have is I think Tauati deserves some credit as he is the only front rower who causes problems at the moment but not because of his size/strength but his mobility. The rest of them are an issue.

With a team as depleted as we are you might have expected to lose to an in-form Cas but to draw v Hudds and lose to the likes of Leeds and Hull in the manner we did? Those results are why we have a mini-crisis on our hands. In each of these games you can point to basic mistakes by senior players, such as Gells shooting out of the line and TL missing one on one tackle v Hull that cost tries or Joel T last week putting us on the back foot.

We should be putting this loss dowen as a game too far with an injury his side but instead we have an issue because of our own stupid play and a front row that got bullied in the previous few games.

All this talk of Micky Mac having to earn his place back? We need his toughness back ASAP. That is no slight against Powell but rather recognition that the props need someone to help them get on top.

Another good effort tonight but we are deploying the tactics that really works for us when we have our best 17 on the park. Our props are trying to get to the ground as quickly as possible so that we get quick play the balls, unfortunately the unavailability of Lockers, Bateman and our wingers is nullifying the benefit we would normally get. The lack of dominance in the middle is giving our halfbacks little time and room to operate in. Whilst our three quarters are giving it everything we lack size and invariably we are unable to gain metres on collision hence we are starting our sets much more deeper than we would like. Budgie, Gells and Manfredi are so essential to everything we do because of the metres they gain.

I am worried about MM, having seen him last week he seems far from fit and he would appear to be limping heavily. We could really do with him though as Sam P seemed spent tonight.

All that said, I am confident that we will come good when it matters. Although I detest losing I am still enjoying the matches as the players are giving their all and the experience the young guys are gaining will prove invaluable in the future.

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:
Another good effort tonight but we are deploying the tactics that really works for us when we have our best 17 on the park. Our props are trying to get to the ground as quickly as possible so that we get quick play the balls, unfortunately the unavailability of Lockers, Bateman and our wingers is nullifying the benefit we would normally get.

So why are we still doing this? Can't we adapt?

The lack of dominance in the middle is giving our halfbacks little time and room to operate in. Whilst our three quarters are giving it everything we lack size and invariably we are unable to gain metres on collision hence we are starting our sets much more deeper than we would like. Budgie, Gells and Manfredi are so essential to everything we do because of the metres they gain.

As above. If they are and we have not got the equivalent from the replacements why are we still trying to play the same game?

Does it boil down to pure luck that we have right players available to win games because without them the replacements can't execute the game plan? If so this is a coaching issue.

I am worried about MM, having seen him last week he seems far from fit and he would appear to be limping heavily. We could really do with him though as Sam P seemed spent tonight.

That doesn't sound good and we could do with him because he is a tough uncompromising b'tard. I understand Powell has a problem with his ribs.

DaveO wrote:

shaunedwardsfan​club​ wrote:
Another good effort tonight but we are deploying the tactics that really works for us when we have our best 17 on the park. Our props are trying to get to the ground as quickly as possible so that we get quick play the balls, unfortunately the unavailability of Lockers, Bateman and our wingers is nullifying the benefit we would normally get.

So why are we still doing this? Can't we adapt?

The lack of dominance in the middle is giving our halfbacks little time and room to operate in. Whilst our three quarters are giving it everything we lack size and invariably we are unable to gain metres on collision hence we are starting our sets much more deeper than we would like. Budgie, Gells and Manfredi are so essential to everything we do because of the metres they gain.

As above. If they are and we have not got the equivalent from the replacements why are we still trying to play the same game?

Does it boil down to pure luck that we have right players available to win games because without them the replacements can't execute the game plan? If so this is a coaching issue.

I am worried about MM, having seen him last week he seems far from fit and he would appear to be limping heavily. We could really do with him though as Sam P seemed spent tonight.

That doesn't sound good and we could do with him because he is a tough uncompromising b'tard. I understand Powell has a problem with his ribs.

I assume that we are sticking to the same game plan because we see that as a winning formula when we get our more experienced players back. Like every other team in the comp we need more or less our best team on the paddock to be successful. Manfredi, Budgie, Lockers, JB, MM and Gells are big misses for us and in my view that level of personnel would put us at the top of the pile.