Time To Stop

[Exiled Wiganer]

I don't think I could stop supporting the club even if I wanted to do so. I watch our team in large part because I want to be entertained, and as a release from normal life. I don't see the players as role models, and have always assumed that a large part of every club's management is to deal with events like this. It wouldn't stop me taking our kids.

I am happy with what I have seen in the IL era, and I think we will be much better off with a new coach, particularly with an NRL background.

We have had a bad couple of games, and that may continue on Thursday, but there is a long way to go and we are still well in the mix for this season. I don't think any of us will miss Joel if he never plays for us again, and Wane and Sam were already leaving. If part of the reason for Wane's leaving was this sort of thing, then that shows the club in a good light.


I am really struggling to see what the club could have done differently at the time, apart from sacking Joel, once the bar owner and the barmaid had accepted the apologies from the players.

[medlocke]

Your "Exclusives" will be missed

[Wes]

I don't think I could stop supporting the club even if I wanted to do so. I watch our team in large part because I want to be entertained, and as a release from normal life. I don't see the players as role models, and have always assumed that a large part of every club's management is to deal with events like this. It wouldn't stop me taking our kids.

I am happy with what I have seen in the IL era, and I think we will be much better off with a new coach, particularly with an NRL background.

We have had a bad couple of games, and that may continue on Thursday, but there is a long way to go and we are still well in the mix for this season. I don't think any of us will miss Joel if he never plays for us again, and Wane and Sam were already leaving. If part of the reason for Wane's leaving was this sort of thing, then that shows the club in a good light.


I am really struggling to see what the club could have done differently at the time, apart from sacking Joel, once the bar owner and the barmaid had accepted the apologies from the players.

I really like your first paragraph! They are paid sportsmen I hate it how the media big them up as role models! If my kids look up to rugby players or footballers as role models I’d have to say I have failed them as a parent! My role models are my parents and grandparents, sportsmen and women nope I see them as just that.

[morley pie eater]

The "through thick and thin" argument is an interesting one. I remember the late 70s/early 80s: relegation, 2nd Division. I worked in a warehouse in Batley where everyone knew I was a Wigan fan. They were merciless, beyond friendly banter. I'd have said that was supporting my club through thick and thin.

Around that time we played Huddersfield at Fartown, a match shown on ITV iirc. I think 6 players were sent off, with some absolute thuggery from some of "our" side. I'd taken my 3 year old son to his first match and wondered "What am I teaching him?" "Through thick and thin"? In all circumstances? Doesn't this imply that you have no values other than your rugby team? No standards or red lines? You'll accept *anything* they do, and still cheer them on?

If not, then it's no longer "through thick and thin" but it's about where are your red lines.

Hock, Flower, Bateman . . . none of these even made me consider my support for the club, because (rightly or wrongly) I believed that the club dealt with these incidents/players by attempting to reform them.

Do you blame a teacher/school if a pupil swears at your child? Or do you judge them by how they dealt with the incident? Similarly the club are not being judged by the actions of JT, but by their response.

To me, based on the available evidence, it seems that the club condoned the actions of the chuckle brothers by trying to cover up, by allowing Joel to continue playing, and perhaps only imposing a fine for PR reasons when the cat was out of the bag.

If this is anywhere near correct, then it makes the case radically different from Hock's, Flower's or Bateman's. Because the club/ Radlinski/Leneghan are complicit in accepting JT's behaviour.

If so, that's not a club that I'm willing to support. Not because I never did anything wrong, but because I believe there are standards that go beyond being entertained by 13 men throwing a ball around.

[ian b]

The "through thick and thin" argument is an interesting one. I remember the late 70s/early 80s: relegation, 2nd Division. I worked in a warehouse in Batley where everyone knew I was a Wigan fan. They were merciless, beyond friendly banter. I'd have said that was supporting my club through thick and thin.

Around that time we played Huddersfield at Fartown, a match shown on ITV iirc. I think 6 players were sent off, with some absolute thuggery from some of "our" side. I'd taken my 3 year old son to his first match and wondered "What am I teaching him?" "Through thick and thin"? In all circumstances? Doesn't this imply that you have no values other than your rugby team? No standards or red lines? You'll accept *anything* they do, and still cheer them on


If not, then it's no longer "through thick and thin" but it's about where are your red lines.

Hock, Flower, Bateman . . . none of these even made me consider my support for the club, because (rightly or wrongly) I believed that the club dealt with these incidents/players by attempting to reform them.

Do you blame a teacher/school if a pupil swears at your child? Or do you judge them by how they dealt with the incident? Similarly the club are not being judged by the actions of JT, but by their response.

To me, based on the available evidence, it seems that the club condoned the actions of the chuckle brothers by trying to cover up, by allowing Joel to continue playing, and perhaps only imposing a fine for PR reasons when the cat was out of the bag.

If this is anywhere near correct, then it makes the case radically different from Hock's, Flower's or Bateman's. Because the club/ Radlinski/Leneghan are complicit in accepting JT's behaviour.

If so, that's not a club that I'm willing to support. Not because I never did anything wrong, but because I believe there are standards that go beyond being entertained by 13 men throwing a ball around.

well said pal and i think they should sack Joel this week

[morley pie eater]

If he's sacked, that would be a start. I think we also need an explanation for the club's apparent lack of action for 5 weeks until the video appeared on YouTube. If this smacks of a further attempt at cover-up, spin or damage limitation, then, for me, it all means nowt.

[morley pie eater]

Maybe one way for Radlinski/IL/the club to redeem themselves would be to invite some fans (eg Josie) to witness proceedings and report back.

I think something like this is necessary because I'm not sure I can believe anything the club say.

Radlinski is probably discussing with a PR professional how to handle this and salvage the club's reputation. Sacking Joel could just be a way of loading all the blame onto him. We need an answer as to what and why it took 5 weeks and a video on YouTube.

In short, we know from the video that Tomkins is guilty. It's Rads and the club who are now on trial.

[Josie's friend]

Maybe one way for Radlinski/IL/the club to redeem themselves would be to invite some fans (eg Josie) to witness proceedings and report back.

I think something like this is necessary because I'm not sure I can believe anything the club say.

Radlinski is probably discussing with a PR professional how to handle this and salvage the club's reputation. Sacking Joel could just be a way of loading all the blame onto him. We need an answer as to what and why it took 5 weeks and a video on YouTube.

In short, we know from the video that Tomkins is guilty. It's Rads and the club who are now on trial.

The problem is that while Josie can keep a secret she wouldn't lie, they'd only invite certain parasites who would have no problem keeping fans in the dark. I don't have to name names but if it meant spending time with players they'd say anything.

[DaveO]

I don't think I could stop supporting the club even if I wanted to do so. I watch our team in large part because I want to be entertained, and as a release from normal life. I don't see the players as role models, and have always assumed that a large part of every club's management is to deal with events like this. It wouldn't stop me taking our kids.

I am happy with what I have seen in the IL era, and I think we will be much better off with a new coach, particularly with an NRL background.

We have had a bad couple of games, and that may continue on Thursday, but there is a long way to go and we are still well in the mix for this season. I don't think any of us will miss Joel if he never plays for us again, and Wane and Sam were already leaving. If part of the reason for Wane's leaving was this sort of thing, then that shows the club in a good light.


I am really struggling to see what the club could have done differently at the time, apart from sacking Joel, once the bar owner and the barmaid had accepted the apologies from the players.

I really like your first paragraph! They are paid sportsmen I hate it how the media big them up as role models! If my kids look up to rugby players or footballers as role models I’d have to say I have failed them as a parent! My role models are my parents and grandparents, sportsmen and women nope I see them as just that.

Well be prepared to consider yourself a failure then. You said it yourself "the media big them up as role models" and do you really think your kids will be immune from all that and the peer pressure form their mates who will have their favourite players etc? It's all part of growing up having your sporting heroes who aren't your parents. Kids aspire to emulate their heros when they play sport. It's all perfectly natural and why it's important players set a good example.

You, me and Exiled might not consider them role models but then we are not 10 years old.

It goes further than young kids though because as Rads has said junior players (such as scholarship players) look up to senior players (which again is quite natural) as role models whether we like it or not.

The idea of Exiled that a large part of management time is spent dealing with stuff like this thus implying it is normal is IMO wide of the mark and hinges on the notion that the management does not see them as role models either which I think is obviously not true.

[Wiganer Ted]

No, it isn't time to stop!
I'm sure plenty players have done far worse than Joel and "got away with it" for various reasons applying at the time.
Trouble for Joel is he was caught on video for anyone and everyone to see. It was a disgusting watch and he is paying heavily for it. The club have fined him a large sum of money, suspended him and are considering his long term future.
What that turns out to be we'll see in due course.

If anyone thinks that Joel acting like a complete plank is going to stop me watching Wigan RL then it isn't.

We are now about to enter a new era with a new coach and that usually changes most things if not everything playing wise. We have a great club and very good players. A new coach could well make a good team a lot better and I want to be around watching it. Even if Waney hadn't resigned then I'd still be watching Wigan RL.

The idea that Joel acting like an idiot is going to stop me watching Wigan RL is as far from reality as one can get.