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Fraggle posted:

thegimble posted:
DW has caused this problem

In what way? He pulled us out of the brown smelly stuff when we were about to go bankrupt, he lets us play in a state-of-the-art modern stadium, he's put sponsorship money into the club for eons... what problems has he caused? He doesn't choose which players to sign. He certainly doesn't knock-on in the first or second tackle, or get held up over the line, miss any tackles or kick to nobody. I can understand ML getting some stick as Whelan leaves Lindsay to run the club for him, but DW himself hasn't done much wrong.

Yes but it is him who has let Faz go on the verge of letting Rads go. He is the head of the company and controls the purse springs so when the likes of the Saints and Leeds were sigining the likes of Lauititi and Talau we were getting over the hill second rate NRL players who wanted a pay day. With only 1 or 2 exceptions in the last few yars.

It is him who let Faz go if he says no then he stays.
It is him who will let Rads go. He can say no.

He can say no.

Then again he is far more interested in getting things ready for Roman in August to be bothered about our problems.

Or is our decline actually not a problem to him.

Where is the replacement for Faz, Who the hell covers Rads if he goes in July. So you see it is mainly his faulit as you say he does not drop the ball in the game but hes dropped us right in it.

Also if you were a business owner and you knew the person you left in charge was not up to the job you would replace him. Again it is DW fault he can replace ML eventhough ML has shares in the club. DW has the powere to change things and depending on your point of view either does not want to or can not change things until the end of the current one.

AncientWarrior posted:
My answer to this very good question, Damien, is be patient.

I don't think anyone will argue that the team has been stripped of experience and ability this season but it is my contention that the team in the 'Farrell' era (for want of a better phrase) was not particularly successful. One Grand Final win and one Challenge Cup win is not the level of success that I (and I'm sure every other Wigan supporter) would aspire to and so I prefer not to mourn its passing but to look forward to its replacement.

In saying that and to come to the point of this post, I don't think we can expect an instant success from any new players who may arrive in the weeks and months to come. Some will succeed whilst others will themselves need to be replaced. Great teams do not happen overnight but evolve over 2, 3 or even 4 seasons.

If you keep long term excellence as a goal and everyone at the club is committed to this, then what happens in the short term can be put up with.

If a thing is worth having, it's worth waiting for.

Rubbish!
Tell this to the Saints fans who have enjoyed and are contining to enjoy a decade of success in SL.

Doveoverdave posted:

AncientWarrior posted:
My answer to this very good question, Damien, is be patient.

I don't think anyone will argue that the team has been stripped of experience and ability this season but it is my contention that the team in the 'Farrell' era (for want of a better phrase) was not particularly successful. One Grand Final win and one Challenge Cup win is not the level of success that I (and I'm sure every other Wigan supporter) would aspire to and so I prefer not to mourn its passing but to look forward to its replacement.

In saying that and to come to the point of this post, I don't think we can expect an instant success from any new players who may arrive in the weeks and months to come. Some will succeed whilst others will themselves need to be replaced. Great teams do not happen overnight but evolve over 2, 3 or even 4 seasons.

If you keep long term excellence as a goal and everyone at the club is committed to this, then what happens in the short term can be put up with.

If a thing is worth having, it's worth waiting for.

Rubbish!
Tell this to the Saints fans who have enjoyed and are contining to enjoy a decade of success in SL.

You could say the same thing to the Leeds fans and get a completely different response.

Doveoverdave posted:

AncientWarrior posted:
My answer to this very good question, Damien, is be patient.

I don't think anyone will argue that the team has been stripped of experience and ability this season but it is my contention that the team in the 'Farrell' era (for want of a better phrase) was not particularly successful. One Grand Final win and one Challenge Cup win is not the level of success that I (and I'm sure every other Wigan supporter) would aspire to and so I prefer not to mourn its passing but to look forward to its replacement.

In saying that and to come to the point of this post, I don't think we can expect an instant success from any new players who may arrive in the weeks and months to come. Some will succeed whilst others will themselves need to be replaced. Great teams do not happen overnight but evolve over 2, 3 or even 4 seasons.

If you keep long term excellence as a goal and everyone at the club is committed to this, then what happens in the short term can be put up with.

If a thing is worth having, it's worth waiting for.

Rubbish!
Tell this to the Saints fans who have enjoyed and are contining to enjoy a decade of success in SL.

Yes and most of that succes has come under IM. Give him time its gets umder my skin the amount of people who want him gone.

If he can not do the job then we need a miracle.

gimble posted;
Give him time its gets umder my skin the amount of people who want him gone.

What are you on about?

I am merely pointing out the fact that we as fans have been asked to be patient before. Lots of fans welcomed back ML in 1999 because they thought we were under performing then !!!!!

Since we have won nothing.
How long do you feel is a reasonable amount of time to wait?

think we won the cc some were on the line at murrayfield did we not :conf:

well said, i think blaming DW is the easy option

Doveoverdave posted:

gimble posted;
Give him time its gets umder my skin the amount of people who want him gone.

What are you on about?

I am merely pointing out the fact that we as fans have been asked to be patient before. Lots of fans welcomed back ML in 1999 because they thought we were under performing then !!!!!

Since we have won nothing.
How long do you feel is a reasonable amount of time to wait?

Check 1 or 2 posts on here already wants IM out.

Id give him from the start of next season to get us in the top 3-4 by this time next year. Look at the teams and with what we already have we will be better than Warrington and Hull. Injuries for me can be a cop out but we are loosing 2 of the better players in Hock and Sean all season almost. Take the regular loose and second row out of any top side and they will suffer.

Yes we have been too patient but in getting rid of Faz we have got a good deal of money back on the cap and if some are correct we have more than 2 spaces on the 20/20 left. Maybe next season we will see the benefit of this.

If by this time next season we are still this bad then his position would be looked at but lets be honest if we are this bad next season we all will be majorally disappointed.

A revolution never happens overnight but we were left at a disadvantage when we were forced to let so many go on the cap 2-3 years ago. Yes some siginings have been awful and my patience with Orr is running out.

What has not helped is the constant getting rid of coaches since 99

Monie
Endacott
Raper
Gregory
Betts

This is ML biggest failure.

OK Raper was going and Gregory is poorly but still does not deflect that Monie and Endacott were removed prematurly.

IM has had bad times at Saints but came through it stronger and better ML should have done this with Endacott but sacking coaches deflects all blame from him.

Monie went because he was brilliant enough to see what was comming up at the club with the retention policy and the financial situation.I was under the impression that ML wanted to be to involved in the team so he quit.This guy was genuinely brilliant did anyone see him at the back of the Queensland origin team box game 1.

damien morrissey posted:
Monie went because he was brilliant enough to see what was comming up at the club with the retention policy and the financial situation.I was under the impression that ML wanted to be to involved in the team so he quit.This guy was genuinely brilliant did anyone see him at the back of the Queensland origin team box game 1.

Monie was gone several months before ML returned to Wigan, he fell out with then-chairman Peter Norbury over the way the club was being run (down) at the time. Norbury fired him because JM didn't like his interfering (so it says in JM's book). IIRC Lindsey's first act as Chairman on his return was to axe Monie's replacement Andy Goodway, who really was poor.