Dont Blame The Ref

[mario]

ChrisA posted:

jodie clark posted:
put the ref on report
he new what he was doing
rules are rules and he should stick to them

As I said, we beat oursleves, the officials madea bad call, one for each side, so it's irrelevant. Although I guess it may be easier for some to blame the ref, while those who know rugby can really see why we lost the game, because we are not good enough, it really is that simple.

Orrs try was a try! Even when your not good enough the officials shouldn't decide who wins the game.

[Wizard_Millward]

waterside glens posted:
i think if we manage to make top six it will be a false position though that looks unlikely now. we just aren,t good enough in cedrtain areas

What is a false position? If we make the top 6, we deserve to, if we don't, we deserve to have not done, it's that simple.

[DaveO]

ChrisA posted:

jodie clark posted:
put the ref on report
he new what he was doing
rules are rules and he should stick to them

As I said, we beat oursleves, the officials madea bad call, one for each side, so it's irrelevant.

I disagree. The Orr try was a try because all you need is fingertips and there is also an actual rule that says benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker. That did not apply in the final try because if you contunue the play afer held is caled then it is a penalty to the defence.

The final try was a disgrace no matter how poorly Wigan had been in the match as a whole. A referee who calls held and then asks if a play after that has happened is a try is not fit to referee.

Saying it was a bad call is the understatement and he should be demoted although why NL1 should have to put up with that idiot is beyond me.

Although I guess it may be easier for some to blame the ref, while those who know rugby can really see why we lost the game, because we are not good enough, it really is that simple.

You can only take what is on offer on the plate and had we scraped a point it would not be the first time a team had got something out of a game despite being second best. Saints are past masters at it and when they do, it is their never say die attitude etc etc not an undeserving win or draw.

My view on our play is not that different to yours. I would highlight the play the ball as the major difference. Theirs was often quick and fast, ours rarely was.

You could argue that was because of lying on but if so we didn't play the ref as well as they did.

But despite us coming off second best we should still have pinched a point and would have if it were not for KK who is not fit to be a superleague referee.

Personlly I don't care how soon this season ends.

Dave

[Alex the Warrior]

Half agree with the original poster. I thought that Wakefield were the better side, but Kirkpatrick did us again. I thought it was one of his better performances (which is saying something because he was still poor - letting too many things go) until we hit the front. Then immediately, he started giving them everything to get down them field and level the scores. He made things tough for the video ref at the end. He should've disallowed the try and not passed it on. He clearly held up his hand for the last tackle, so it should've been a penalty for us when Wakefield played on.

At Leigh recently (which I think is the only game we've won with him in charge this season) an older bloke told me a story about Kirkpatrick. Allegedly, at refereeign school in the 90's, Kirkpatrick said 'I'll tell you how to stop Wigan winning everything - make me a referee' A 20% winning record with him in charge seems to speak for itself.

[Wizard_Millward]

Alex the Warrior posted:
At Leigh recently (which I think is the only game we've won with him in charge this season) an older bloke told me a story about Kirkpatrick. Allegedly, at refereeign school in the 90's, Kirkpatrick said 'I'll tell you how to stop Wigan winning everything - make me a referee' A 20% winning record with him in charge seems to speak for itself.

I find this hard to beleive really, but if it is true it would explain a hell of a lot!

[elizwigan]

If true he shouldnt be saying things like that. He should be fair to both sides and referee fairly as it was any 2 teams in da superleague and not wigan v sum1. I tink that that last try shouldn't be given if he shouted held. i thought we ad the 2 points frm this game shows how wrong i can be !!! Just hope that the score is better in a couple of weeks agaisnt Salford.

[ChrisA]

DaveO posted:

ChrisA posted:

jodie clark posted:
put the ref on report
he new what he was doing
rules are rules and he should stick to them

As I said, we beat oursleves, the officials madea bad call, one for each side, so it's irrelevant.

I disagree. The Orr try was a try because all you need is fingertips and there is also an actual rule that says benefit of the doubt goes to the attacker. That did not apply in the final try because if you contunue the play afer held is caled then it is a penalty to the defence.

The final try was a disgrace no matter how poorly Wigan had been in the match as a whole. A referee who calls held and then asks if a play after that has happened is a try is not fit to referee.

Saying it was a bad call is the understatement and he should be demoted although why NL1 should have to put up with that idiot is beyond me.

Although I guess it may be easier for some to blame the ref, while those who know rugby can really see why we lost the game, because we are not good enough, it really is that simple.

You can only take what is on offer on the plate and had we scraped a point it would not be the first time a team had got something out of a game despite being second best. Saints are past masters at it and when they do, it is their never say die attitude etc etc not an undeserving win or draw.

My view on our play is not that different to yours. I would highlight the play the ball as the major difference. Theirs was often quick and fast, ours rarely was.

You could argue that was because of lying on but if so we didn't play the ref as well as they did.

But despite us coming off second best we should still have pinched a point and would have if it were not for KK who is not fit to be a superleague referee.

Personlly I don't care how soon this season ends.

Dave

I agree the fianl try was a complete disgrace, I'm not debating that, all I'm saying is as a whole we are a pretty poor team, Wakefield played better than Warrington did tonight, alot better, we only played aswel as we did against the Wire, but we lost tonight. We lost that game through silly errors and poor ball control long before they dodgy try was given, I know the scoreboard didnt say so, but we wernt good enough to control the game, we got into an un-deserved lead and just threw it away, everytime we got good fieldpostion we either lost the ball or gave away a penalty and let them off the hook.

I keep thinking about Allen and why Millward keeps picking him, he really is a poor player in my eyes, he cant tackle and he really doesnt have any go forward at all, i can only think of 2 or 3 occasions were he actually took the ball in, and even then he did nothing. Surely we have better than him.

[ChrisA]

mario posted:

ChrisA posted:

jodie clark posted:
put the ref on report
he new what he was doing
rules are rules and he should stick to them

As I said, we beat oursleves, the officials madea bad call, one for each side, so it's irrelevant. Although I guess it may be easier for some to blame the ref, while those who know rugby can really see why we lost the game, because we are not good enough, it really is that simple.

Orrs try was a try! Even when your not good enough the officials shouldn't decide who wins the game.

Look at Orr's reaction when he gets up and somebody asks him, he says no, and even the Wigan team lined up ready for a restart on the 20 metre, even Betts reaction was one of surprise when it showed him. If the guy who scored says it isnt, and our team line up ready for a tap restart, what more evidence do you need ?

[robjoenz]

Although I was more than agrieved by some of his decisions I think Kirkpatrick did the right thing at the end of the game and that it was the video referee that made the balls up. I saw his hand go up to call the last tackle and then the fans all cheered but from where Kirkpatrick was stood there was a sea of bodies preventing him from seeing the line. For all he knew the ball went down between the huddle of players and the fans only saw it when players moved. Is the video referee there to aid the referee when he isn't totally sure?

I think it is the absence of an in-goal official when the game is on SKY that is to blame. Additionally I am informed that you could clearly see Kirkpatrick signal last tackle a few frames before the ball went down for a try from the sideline camera shot, in which case it was the video referee that was to blame.

I thought Wakefield probably deserved to win tonight. They had a much better attacking game, our defence was terrible, we stood there waiting for them to attack so when they hit our line we were always on the back foot, as a consequence they made 15 metres on each play-the-ball. Standing off their attack gave Sam Obst all the space in the world and with two runners one side and one runner the other side they had so many more options available that us. We have two game plans; one man run up the middle or throw the ball out wide, we haven't got a move in us. I thought Millward was supposed to be bringing in a more flowing style of RL, if anything we are playing worse than we did under Betts. Hopefully strengthening the squad will help things improve.

I also thought all of our props played well tonight. I was especially pleased to see Seuseu have a good game. He's been struggling to break a tackle but tonight he was dragging three players extra metres in most tackles.

I thought Radlinski had a pretty poor game, one or two mistakes, he was easily side footed for their first try. I thought Aspinwall was playing ok before he picked up a knock after about 20-30 minutes. He played a nice offload to Godwin near their line and made a decent break from the half way line.

Danny Orr played fairly well, he didn't look quite fit, he was hobbling about a bit on his knee but he did well, it was good combining with Moran for his try. I was a bit disappointed with Moran and I wasn't quite sure how he got MOTM. Whilst he does show some talent and scored a decent try he makes that many mistakes which cancels everything out.

All in all shoddy defence, handling errors and a fast attack centred around Sam Obst lost us the game. Wakefield went away deserved winners.

[Fraggle]

robjoenz posted:
Although I was more than agrieved by some of his decisions I think Kirkpatrick did the right thing at the end of the game and that it was the video referee that made the balls up. I saw his hand go up to call the last tackle and then the fans all cheered but from where Kirkpatrick was stood there was a sea of bodies preventing him from seeing the line. For all he knew the ball went down between the huddle of players and the fans only saw it when players moved. Is the video referee there to aid the referee when he isn't totally sure?

I think it is the absence of an in-goal official when the game is on SKY that is to blame. Additionally I am informed that you could clearly see Kirkpatrick signal last tackle a few frames before the ball went down for a try from the sideline camera shot, in which case it was the video referee that was to blame.

No, I'd blame KK. Why call last tackle when the guy is still moving? You're either tackled or you're not, and if he's sure enough to signal for the last tackle then the only outcome of this should be a (wrongful) penalty to Wigan. The video ref got it right in that the tackle wasn't complete and the guy scored but KK should have a few weeks off to relearn the rules about when a tackle has been made.

I thought Radlinski had a pretty poor game, one or two mistakes, he was easily side footed for their first try. I thought Aspinwall was playing ok before he picked up a knock after about 20-30 minutes. He played a nice offload to Godwin near their line and made a decent break from the half way line.

Danny Orr played fairly well, he didn't look quite fit, he was hobbling about a bit on his knee but he did well, it was good combining with Moran for his try. I was a bit disappointed with Moran and I wasn't quite sure how he got MOTM. Whilst he does show some talent and scored a decent try he makes that many mistakes which cancels everything out.

All in all shoddy defence, handling errors and a fast attack centred around Sam Obst lost us the game. Wakefield went away deserved winners.

Agree about Rads, obviously he's not match fit and has no pace again. It normally takes him a game or two to get upto speed, but with the rest of our backline pretty ineffective (Dallas aside and Aspy to a lesser extent) the lack of pace was shown up.

I was getting very concerned about Orr, towards the end his tackling was either superb or abysmal and he missed as many as he completed. With Dallas also limping we were very vulnerable, but I guess that with Melling and Godwin on the sidelines with cartledge injuries and Guisset on planet Mars we were really running out of options. Moran still isn't a scrum-half, but took his tries well. I was getting a bit annoyed with the fact that Wakey kept taking out people making grubber kicks close to their line, stopping the kicker chasing the ball yet KK did nothing. Obst was impressive, a very lively player who certainly suits their team.

What can you say about our defence? It's a shame I can't go to the next Riversiders' meetng, as I'd like to ask Chairman Mo why he brought Andrew Farrah to the club as our defensive ability has collapsed since he arrived as defensive coach. What does he get paid for, because from what I see he's getting money for nothing.