Wintergreen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 1:07 pmor sponsorships have to be vetted by the RFL and so on.
If I was a player I would insist that my earnings were NOT disclosed to the RFL, even assuming they are competent, which is a stretch.
My earnings are between me and HMRC thank you very much.
The RFL can go and whistle and if they feel strongly about it they can take me to court where I will defeat them on the grounds of restraint of trade.
So do you not think that players wages are already disclosed to the RFL or how else would the cap be monitored, would the RFL just take the clubs word on how much they spend on players, I very much doubt it, unless someone in the 'know' can tell me otherwise.
Like most things in life, there will be someone who has access to information that individuals would not want to be made public, I once in a previous company used to pay very wealthy investment bankers as well as Government Ministers but I did not disclose those earnings, nor did anyone else who worked there, because you sign confidentiality agreements, do you not think there are hundreds if not thousands of people who work within HMRC who can see your earnings, there are but they do not either access them or disclose them due to confidentiality, much like the RFL would be bound by the same.
Restraint of trade is a different matter, one which players should really look to explore as the cap rules or restraints forbid them from earning as it would count on the cap, which I would suspect will be linked to the player promoting their image as opposed to just opening a coffee shop or something like that
I suspect the aggregate amount of player expenditure is disclosed (to the RFL), not the individual details.
I'm not sure what you are getting at with your other points. You can't be comparing the "need to know" with regards to salaries from the RFL with HMRC can you? ?????
I would beg to differ, how can you effectively run a salary cap without truly knowing what is paid to each individual player to get a grand total of cap expenditure, otherwise the clubs could just pluck figures from thin air and say this is the total spend and without any form of disclosure at individual level how could you ever check those figures, especially given the disparity between an established 'star' and a player just being promoted to the first team.
There is the same 'need to know' to run a salary cap as there is to check you are paying the right amount of tax, I would suspect there will be a 'team' of individuals at the RFL who's job it is to check cap spending, so it's not like the whole of the RFL will have access to players wages, even if they did they would still be bound by the same confidentiality as any other organisation, much like HMRC and the thousands that work there.
Wintergreen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 1:07 pmor sponsorships have to be vetted by the RFL and so on.
If I was a player I would insist that my earnings were NOT disclosed to the RFL, even assuming they are competent, which is a stretch.
My earnings are between me and HMRC thank you very much.
The RFL can go and whistle and if they feel strongly about it they can take me to court where I will defeat them on the grounds of restraint of trade.
The club would still be fined though. The action is not against the player, it's against the club.
Yes Mike you are right it is the club the action would be against, but we are talking about if players were allowed to earn outside of the club, to ensure it is not just the club indirectly paying a player, I am referring to the RFL vetting the deal to ensure it is not just a manipulation of the cap, so if Danson's company suddenly decided to sponsor Bevan then they may look at that as manipulating the cap, but if say Nike were to offer a deal for him to promote boots then that would generally be seen as a genuine sponsorship deal and for him as an individual, not negotiated through the club or anyone with any ties to the club.
So do you not think that players wages are already disclosed to the RFL or how else would the cap be monitored, would the RFL just take the clubs word on how much they spend on players, I very much doubt it, unless someone in the 'know' can tell me otherwise.
Like most things in life, there will be someone who has access to information that individuals would not want to be made public, I once in a previous company used to pay very wealthy investment bankers as well as Government Ministers but I did not disclose those earnings, nor did anyone else who worked there, because you sign confidentiality agreements, do you not think there are hundreds if not thousands of people who work within HMRC who can see your earnings, there are but they do not either access them or disclose them due to confidentiality, much like the RFL would be bound by the same.
Restraint of trade is a different matter, one which players should really look to explore as the cap rules or restraints forbid them from earning as it would count on the cap, which I would suspect will be linked to the player promoting their image as opposed to just opening a coffee shop or something like that
I suspect the aggregate amount of player expenditure is disclosed (to the RFL), not the individual details.
I'm not sure what you are getting at with your other points. You can't be comparing the "need to know" with regards to salaries from the RFL with HMRC can you? ?????
I would beg to differ, how can you effectively run a salary cap without truly knowing what is paid to each individual player to get a grand total of cap expenditure, otherwise the clubs could just pluck figures from thin air and say this is the total spend and without any form of disclosure at individual level how could you ever check those figures, especially given the disparity between an established 'star' and a player just being promoted to the first team.
There is the same 'need to know' to run a salary cap as there is to check you are paying the right amount of tax, I would suspect there will be a 'team' of individuals at the RFL who's job it is to check cap spending, so it's not like the whole of the RFL will have access to players wages, even if they did they would still be bound by the same confidentiality as any other organisation, much like HMRC and the thousands that work there.
Financial statements are (after a certain size) audited. Last I checked the RFL did not hold an audit licence.
I really hope it isn't a "team" who checks spending as the entire competition could be done in less than 1 day per year!
I suspect the aggregate amount of player expenditure is disclosed (to the RFL), not the individual details.
I'm not sure what you are getting at with your other points. You can't be comparing the "need to know" with regards to salaries from the RFL with HMRC can you? ?????
I would beg to differ, how can you effectively run a salary cap without truly knowing what is paid to each individual player to get a grand total of cap expenditure, otherwise the clubs could just pluck figures from thin air and say this is the total spend and without any form of disclosure at individual level how could you ever check those figures, especially given the disparity between an established 'star' and a player just being promoted to the first team.
There is the same 'need to know' to run a salary cap as there is to check you are paying the right amount of tax, I would suspect there will be a 'team' of individuals at the RFL who's job it is to check cap spending, so it's not like the whole of the RFL will have access to players wages, even if they did they would still be bound by the same confidentiality as any other organisation, much like HMRC and the thousands that work there.
Financial statements are (after a certain size) audited. Last I checked the RFL did not hold an audit licence.
I really hope it isn't a "team" who checks spending as the entire competition could be done in less than 1 day per year!
So what you are suggesting is that clubs just tell the RFL they are not spending over the cap and submit a figure, then the RFL just then take their word for it, makes you wonder how any club would spend over the cap or admit they are even up to the cap, also who's to say the RFL don't use external accountants/auditors to review the clubs spending on players, if there is a limit in place then somehow clubs will need to submit evidence on what they are spending on players, or anything else that is covered under the salary cap rules.
Also the salary cap is a 'live' cap therefore it is reviewed and can changes throughout the year and with dispensations etc. will not be a quick a+b=c, so yes there may be one person who does it but I suspect it will be a 'team' otherwise if that person is off sick, who is monitoring the clubs.
Wintergreen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 1:07 pmor sponsorships have to be vetted by the RFL and so on.
If I was a player I would insist that my earnings were NOT disclosed to the RFL, even assuming they are competent, which is a stretch.
My earnings are between me and HMRC thank you very much.
The RFL can go and whistle and if they feel strongly about it they can take me to court where I will defeat them on the grounds of restraint of trade.
The club would still be fined though. The action is not against the player, it's against the club.
Not really. The club has absolutely no right to control/view the total income of one of it's employees.
I'm not sure you understand the concept of the salary cap, now I don't know all the ins and outs of what is or isn't included but I know that sponsorship of players when they receive an income for said sponsorship is added to the cash amount the club has spent against the cap, like I have said before if a player say owns a business not associated to playing or his image as a player, then I would expect that would not count on the cap, but if the player was say advertising a pair of boots with his image or even in club colours, then I suspect that would count on the cap, which the club would need to account for in their spending, otherwise clubs would be fined for breaching the cap.
Wintergreen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2025 1:07 pmor sponsorships have to be vetted by the RFL and so on.
If I was a player I would insist that my earnings were NOT disclosed to the RFL, even assuming they are competent, which is a stretch.
My earnings are between me and HMRC thank you very much.
The RFL can go and whistle and if they feel strongly about it they can take me to court where I will defeat them on the grounds of restraint of trade.
The club would still be fined though. The action is not against the player, it's against the club.
Not really. The club has absolutely no right to control/view the total income of one of it's employees.
The club is bound by the salary cap regulations, so if one of our players was found to be circumventing the cap by an unknown amount then the club would be penalized. Not the player.
