Re: Vaealiki

Mother feka!! · Post by **Mother feka!!** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:07 pm

2 good games in 2 years is not good enough, he has had his chance and needs to go, centre is our only problem atm.

Martin Taylor · Post by **Martin Taylor** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:44 pm

Flash posted:
Martin Taylor posted:
I have to be honest but i think he is awfull! He is seems to be trying which i will give him credit for, but his game is still very poor! In defence, he stands off players and leaves his tackle to late and very often concedes points. Perfect example of this was against Catalans last weekend when i think they had a try disallowed! (I think cpwigan has already highlighted this on another thread) I still see that pathetic effort to chace back Lauititi when he looks like he is running in sand! What people forget is that Danny Orr covers for him, and he can determine how Vialeki looks on the day! Without Orr covering the centre, Vialeki would be made to look even more of a fool! One on one, he does not have the pace to stop a ddecent attacking centre!
I will say this, there is certainly more effort in his game at present, but ability wise i still fear for him!
It's no secret that the missing piece to Wigan's jig-saw are two decent centres!!!
I have been as big a critic of DV's performances for Wigan as anybody and have been doubly disappointed as I saw what he was capable of many times during his time at paramatta. I agree in principle with Martin's post but would just like to add that, having watched the game again last night, commenting purely on that one game rather than him as a player or his past performances for Wigan he had a very solid game. He didn't miss a single tackle, scored a try taking a difficult pass in the process and was pure class in beating 3 leeds defenders to set up Ashton's try. He did look like a carthorse chasing Lauititi, but he had just took an hilarious air-shot at the ball (oh dear!) which left him totally out of position. The only other error he made all night was a knock-on from a Fletcher pass that hit the ground before it reached him. So I have to say, on Friday's performance and Friday's performance alone, credit were it's due. I agree that one game (or even two or ten) doesn't make a good signing on a three year contract though.

I think that's a fair statement! He has shown some better form, but i still don't think that Vialeki even in the past two games has shown enough for me to think there is much talent there! I still think he is frightingly slow, and i still stand by my statement that if Danny Orr was not in the field he would have been in big trouble defensively! While he seems to have a better attitude, and is at least showing some effort, his ability (or lack of it) will always tell on the day!

pedro · Post by **pedro** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:53 pm

Martin Taylor posted:
Flash posted:
Martin Taylor posted:
I have to be honest but i think he is awfull! He is seems to be trying which i will give him credit for, but his game is still very poor! In defence, he stands off players and leaves his tackle to late and very often concedes points. Perfect example of this was against Catalans last weekend when i think they had a try disallowed! (I think cpwigan has already highlighted this on another thread) I still see that pathetic effort to chace back Lauititi when he looks like he is running in sand! What people forget is that Danny Orr covers for him, and he can determine how Vialeki looks on the day! Without Orr covering the centre, Vialeki would be made to look even more of a fool! One on one, he does not have the pace to stop a ddecent attacking centre!
I will say this, there is certainly more effort in his game at present, but ability wise i still fear for him!
It's no secret that the missing piece to Wigan's jig-saw are two decent centres!!!
I have been as big a critic of DV's performances for Wigan as anybody and have been doubly disappointed as I saw what he was capable of many times during his time at paramatta. I agree in principle with Martin's post but would just like to add that, having watched the game again last night, commenting purely on that one game rather than him as a player or his past performances for Wigan he had a very solid game. He didn't miss a single tackle, scored a try taking a difficult pass in the process and was pure class in beating 3 leeds defenders to set up Ashton's try. He did look like a carthorse chasing Lauititi, but he had just took an hilarious air-shot at the ball (oh dear!) which left him totally out of position. The only other error he made all night was a knock-on from a Fletcher pass that hit the ground before it reached him. So I have to say, on Friday's performance and Friday's performance alone, credit were it's due. I agree that one game (or even two or ten) doesn't make a good signing on a three year contract though.
I think that's a fair statement! He has shown some better form, but i still don't think that Vialeki even in the past two games has shown enough for me to think there is much talent there! I still think he is frightingly slow, and i still stand by my statement that if Danny Orr was not in the field he would have been in big trouble defensively! While he seems to have a better attitude, and is at least showing some effort, his ability (or lack of it) will always tell on the day!

We can say the same of Orr. Has been poor since he came to Wigan. Both are playing their best rugby now under a very good coach. Lets see if they keep improving under his guidance.

Martin Taylor · Post by **Martin Taylor** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:06 pm

pedro posted:
Martin Taylor posted:
Flash posted: I have been as big a critic of DV's performances for Wigan as anybody and have been doubly disappointed as I saw what he was capable of many times during his time at paramatta. I agree in principle with Martin's post but would just like to add that, having watched the game again last night, commenting purely on that one game rather than him as a player or his past performances for Wigan he had a very solid game. He didn't miss a single tackle, scored a try taking a difficult pass in the process and was pure class in beating 3 leeds defenders to set up Ashton's try. He did look like a carthorse chasing Lauititi, but he had just took an hilarious air-shot at the ball (oh dear!) which left him totally out of position. The only other error he made all night was a knock-on from a Fletcher pass that hit the ground before it reached him. So I have to say, on Friday's performance and Friday's performance alone, credit were it's due. I agree that one game (or even two or ten) doesn't make a good signing on a three year contract though.
I think that's a fair statement! He has shown some better form, but i still don't think that Vialeki even in the past two games has shown enough for me to think there is much talent there! I still think he is frightingly slow, and i still stand by my statement that if Danny Orr was not in the field he would have been in big trouble defensively! While he seems to have a better attitude, and is at least showing some effort, his ability (or lack of it) will always tell on the day!
We can say the same of Orr. Has been poor since he came to Wigan. Both are playing their best rugby now under a very good coach. Lets see if they keep improving under his guidance.

Not true, Orr's defence has always been good throughout his time at Wigan, it was his inability to attack other teams and play the role of a stand-off going forward which he was criricised for! And rightly so! However, Vialeki for me is not a decent defender without Orr on his shoulder to cover him! He still stands off players too long, and when he does commit to the tackle he has very often left it too late, and does not have the pace to then turn and chance! I still feel that if Orr did not make the team next week for what ever reason, Vialeki would be in deep s**t, and all the critisism would start again! I have watched that game a few times, and i still see times when Orr is tackling in the centres bacause Vialeki is out of position!
Listen, it's no secret that this is the area we are struggling in, and neither Vialeki, McAvoy or Radalinski for that matter are the long term solution!

pedro · Post by **pedro** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:14 pm

Martin Taylor posted:
pedro posted:
Martin Taylor posted: I think that's a fair statement! He has shown some better form, but i still don't think that Vialeki even in the past two games has shown enough for me to think there is much talent there! I still think he is frightingly slow, and i still stand by my statement that if Danny Orr was not in the field he would have been in big trouble defensively! While he seems to have a better attitude, and is at least showing some effort, his ability (or lack of it) will always tell on the day!
We can say the same of Orr. Has been poor since he came to Wigan. Both are playing their best rugby now under a very good coach. Lets see if they keep improving under his guidance.
Not true, Orr's defence has always been good throughout his time at Wigan, it was his inability to attack other teams and play the role of a stand-off going forward which he was criricised for! And rightly so! However, Vialeki for me is not a decent defender without Orr on his shoulder to cover him! He still stands off players too long, and when he does commit to the tackle he has very often left it too late, and does not have the pace to then turn and chance! I still feel that if Orr did not make the team next week for what ever reason, Vialeki would be in deep s**t, and all the critisism would start again! I have watched that game a few times, and i still see times when Orr is tackling in the centres bacause Vialeki is out of position!
Listen, it's no secret that this is the area we are struggling in, and neither Vialeki, McAvoy or Radalinski for that matter are the long term solution!

It is true Danny Orr has been a failure at wigan although the last half dozen games he has been good. As a stand off i'd rather him be more creative than a huge defender as this is what we have been missing for 2 season now.
DV's defense is not so bad. Jamie Lyon has never done anything against him he is a big game player he just hasnt been motivated to get up for a game. I dont think neither him or Orr nop matter how good they play fot the rest of the season deserve new contracts as overall they have been poor.

Martin Taylor · Post by **Martin Taylor** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:36 pm

pedro posted:
Martin Taylor posted:
pedro posted: We can say the same of Orr. Has been poor since he came to Wigan. Both are playing their best rugby now under a very good coach. Lets see if they keep improving under his guidance.
Not true, Orr's defence has always been good throughout his time at Wigan, it was his inability to attack other teams and play the role of a stand-off going forward which he was criricised for! And rightly so! However, Vialeki for me is not a decent defender without Orr on his shoulder to cover him! He still stands off players too long, and when he does commit to the tackle he has very often left it too late, and does not have the pace to then turn and chance! I still feel that if Orr did not make the team next week for what ever reason, Vialeki would be in deep s**t, and all the critisism would start again! I have watched that game a few times, and i still see times when Orr is tackling in the centres bacause Vialeki is out of position!
Listen, it's no secret that this is the area we are struggling in, and neither Vialeki, McAvoy or Radalinski for that matter are the long term solution!
It is true Danny Orr has been a failure at wigan although the last half dozen games he has been good. As a stand off i'd rather him be more creative than a huge defender as this is what we have been missing for 2 season now.
DV's defense is not so bad. Jamie Lyon has never done anything against him he is a big game player he just hasnt been motivated to get up for a game. I dont think neither him or Orr nop matter how good they play fot the rest of the season deserve new contracts as overall they have been poor.

Yes but like i said, without Danny Orr's defence Vialeki would be a whole lot worse. I don't think Orr has been a complete failure either, wheras Vialeki has! Orr deserves a place in the squad next season and i feel that most people on here would agree! However, Vialeki has been consistenly poor and does not! And trust me, Vialeki does not defend well, and for all his size and presense does nothing!

Nine · Post by **Nine** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:42 pm

Too little, too late from DV I think. It's not the odd good game, the extremely rare brilliant break that matters - it's does he do a job for us week in, week out. And he doesn't.

Much for next year depends on how Phil Bailey turns out. McAvoy is letting nobody down, either. But I think one centre berth will belong to Daryl Goulding sooner rather than later.

He has laways looked good when he's had a chance in the first team, and is bulking up nicely, going by his appearance and performance in the pitch in the U18s Academy yesterday. There's a big gulf between Academy and first team, though - but with a coach of Brian Noble's quality at Wigan I think Goulding has all the equipment to make the step up on a permanent basis eventually.

Martin Taylor · Post by **Martin Taylor** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:43 pm

Another thing! Please don't compare Vialeki with Jamie Lyon. That's like comparing Fred Elliot with Tom Hanks! One is a legend in his field, the other is a joke! Besides your argument is also weak because you base one game aginst each other, on how good both players are! Jamie Lyon is a man of steel, has scored over 50 trys for St Helens, and is world class! Vialeki can't even make the first team at Wigan! Come on, Jamie Lyon and Vialeki should not even be in the same sentance! :eusa9:

GeoffN · Post by **GeoffN** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:31 pm

pedro posted:

I dont think neither him or Orr nop matter how good they play fot the rest of the season deserve new contracts as overall they have been poor.

True, but remember it's not a case of NEW contracts; they're both still contracted for another year. It's more a case of whether they're bad enough to be worth paying them off (money which then counts as part of the cap). IMO, Orr is showing that he can do enough to earn his place next year, DV still needs to do a lot more, but at least is showing signs of improvement.

Martin Taylor · Post by **Martin Taylor** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:01 pm

GeoffN posted:
pedro posted:

I dont think neither him or Orr nop matter how good they play fot the rest of the season deserve new contracts as overall they have been poor.
True, but remember it's not a case of NEW contracts; they're both still contracted for another year. It's more a case of whether they're bad enough to be worth paying them off (money which then counts as part of the cap). IMO, Orr is showing that he can do enough to earn his place next year, DV still needs to do a lot more, but at least is showing signs of improvement.

I think Vialeki has left it that bit too late now! Orr has reslihed being under Noble, and is certainly delievring what we knew he could!