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Wood for the trees...

The difference between the World Club Challenge and an average SL match is the standard of RL on display. I know both sides made a few errors, but they were handling errors, how many stupid ill-disciplined acts did the players make?

Compare the discipline of Saints & Broncos with that of Wigan (running over the ruck area, rolling the tackled player, back chatting to the referee) and it's blatently obvious why there were less penalties.

Also look at last seasons finals, most will say they were both well refereed. Reason being the players are on the top of their game, they don't want to give away stupid penalties to conceed territory and points and they haven't got to the finals by doing such.

If the players are well disciplined there are less penalties, simple as that!

utter drivel most referees are power crazy ,failed players,the whole point is they are not consistant,and penalise one side for an offence but not the other,it make's me wonder could he have let hock off we had a good head of steam up he make's a genuine attempt to play the ball but get's penalised.bradford did exactly the same when camped on our line but was never penalised.

Rob you have not got a clue Saints supporters were crying about Clark not penalising players etc etc allowing things that get punished in SL. What they did not understand that here was a man who understand that very often the difference between a tackled player getting off can be seconds and in the bigger picture it is irrelevant. Whatsmore, I could sit down with any SL referee and using a video and stopwatch say why did you penalise that tackle, it took 8 seconds, that tackle took 10 seconds, the one in the next set took 12 seconds, the one after that 11 seconds and so on. Their is no logic nor no understanding on the part of British referees that every time a penalty is awarded it is a key factor in the game. You must think and be sure beyond all doubt before awarding them. The NRL referees have a policy, the seek to give minimal penalties. A POLICY. We have what? latest craze of the week by Cummings and his infamous edicts. Referees like Harrigan were famous for not awarding penalties. the funniest aspect of British referees is the mach bullshit I will show them I am the boos tit for tat penalties in the first quarter. you do that and you A) make a rod for your own back and B) stop the players from getting tired because the game becomes stop start and the earm wrestle is prolonged. Why did SL referees award few penalties in big games? FEAR When it comes to the crunch they wanted to avoid having to make decisions in showcases and risk the potential condemnation and repurcussions if they ruined important showcase events.

jammie posted:
...the whole point is they are not consistant,and penalise one side for an offence but not the other

...and being a spectator you are well aware of what warning have been dished out by a referee? How many times prior to the penalty incident he has warned the offending player(s)? You are aware of all that is communicated between the referee and players?

CPWigan

What point are you trying to make about timing the time it takes a tackle to be completed? What does that matter? Referees don't run to a set time, it's all about common sense. Very often the referee will shout 'move' or 'get off' if this is ignored a penalty is given.

If you think that referees give out penalties when they are unsure on decisions you are very much mistaken, you've got to be 100 % sure before making a decision like giving a penalty.

So, referees FEAR giving penalties in big matches hey? Why exactly would that be? I mean all referees believe the match is on for them to be watched so surely if what you say is true this would be the perfect stage to go penalty and card mad, wouldn't it?

Regardless of what you think about referees you cannot deny that teams that make it to finals are generally the best sides. The best sides have the best discipline (this is extremely apparent when you get down to the amateur game), the better the discipline the less penalty offences there are. So even if the referee is scared there are also likely to be many less incidents that are penalisable.

and being an ex player i know all about the ref's warnings,but ther is nothing more anoying than seeing your team hammered for a so called technical offence and the other team getting away with it.if you look at the stats for last season saints were awarded more penaltys than any other team in SL,granted they were the best team but they got the rub of the green

robjoenz posted:
Regardless of what you think about referees you cannot deny that teams that make it to finals are generally the best sides. The best sides have the best discipline (this is extremely apparent when you get down to the amateur game), the better the discipline the less penalty offences there are. So even if the referee is scared there are also likely to be many less incidents that are penalisable.

I accept your point regarding things like high tackles, Rob, it's the little technical offences that are inconsistently punished. For example, I could show you at least a dozen PTB's (from both sides) in the WCC final that were at least as bad as the two Ganson penalised Wigan for.

robjoenz posted:

So, referees FEAR giving penalties in big matches hey? Why exactly would that be? I mean all referees believe the match is on for them to be watched so surely if what you say is true this would be the perfect stage to go penalty and card mad, wouldn't it?

I am afraid that I have to agree that referees often take the easy option in big games.

Example 1
At the CC final in Cardiff Kevin Brown was straight-armed across the head by a saints player (I think that it was Dom Fen'auti (sic) ) and Jonathan Davies (who was commentating) said "the referee will put this on report and take the easy option - what did he do? Sure enough the ref put it on report

Example 2
When Wigan lost to les cats at the start of last season, Alex Chan high tackled Godwin twice in the space of 30 seconds. Even Stevo said "he'll have to go" - what did Klein do? - sin bin, when just about everyone in the ground could see that it should have been a red card. Tohe Koye-Love was sent off (and rightly so) for two high tackles in a row on Steve Renouf in a match vs wire - so surely that is a lack of consistency?

I am sure that you will mention the fact that I am biased toward Wigan as the reason that I saw these decisions the way I did - however both the commentators (including one that is famously anti-Wigan) thought that the ref bottled it and should have taken sterner action

jammie posted:
if you look at the stats for last season saints were awarded more penaltys than any other team in SL,granted they were the best team but they got the rub of the green

Didn't they also conceed the most or were near the top of the table for conceeding the most?

Matthew posted:
I am afraid that I have to agree that referees often take the easy option in big games.

Example 1
At the CC final in Cardiff Kevin Brown was straight-armed across the head by a saints player (I think that it was Dom Fen'auti (sic) ) and Jonathan Davies (who was commentating) said "the referee will put this on report and take the easy option - what did he do? Sure enough the ref put it on report

Example 2
When Wigan lost to les cats at the start of last season, Alex Chan high tackled Godwin twice in the space of 30 seconds. Even Stevo said "he'll have to go" - what did Klein do? - sin bin, when just about everyone in the ground could see that it should have been a red card. Tohe Koye-Love was sent off (and rightly so) for two high tackles in a row on Steve Renouf in a match vs wire - so surely that is a lack of consistency?

I am sure that you will mention the fact that I am biased toward Wigan as the reason that I saw these decisions the way I did - however both the commentators (including one that is famously anti-Wigan) thought that the ref bottled it and should have taken sterner action

Example 3
Willie Mason taking out Sean Long in the tri-nations match last year.

Example 4
Trent Barrett being taken out against Warrington in the first few minutes.

Example 5
Chris Thorman being taken out against Saints.

The latter two were not show-piece matches and I am sure there are other incidents throughout the season where referees have missed incidents or have not seen the full extent of the challenge. You are assuming a referee sees everything. As CP (I think) said earlier; a referee must be 100 % sure before making an important decision.