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adrenalinxx posted:

We are yet to see how the RFL plans to decide on what classes an overseas players, Hansen is not a Kolpack player but is non-qouta because of his British Passport (unless Kolpack covers British passports as well).

I know we have yet to see what the RFL do which is why I said "if...". However the stated aim is to limit Kolpak players and EC passport players so the likes of Richards with his Irish passport would count on the quota.

Given Hansen has a British passport which is by definition an EC one as well, he appears little different to Richards, Millard and Withers who would all (if my understanding is correct) be classed as overseas players. Especially as Hansen is now officially a Kiwi having represented NZ.

I like Hansen as a player and he is different than the usual "Kolpak" signings in that he is playing here in his prime and not on a retirement package. Whether the club will consider him good enough for an overseas player slot if the new rules come in as I anticipate will be interesting.

Dave

DaveO posted:

adrenalinxx posted:

We are yet to see how the RFL plans to decide on what classes an overseas players, Hansen is not a Kolpack player but is non-qouta because of his British Passport (unless Kolpack covers British passports as well).

I know we have yet to see what the RFL do which is why I said "if...". However the stated aim is to limit Kolpak players and EC passport players so the likes of Richards with his Irish passport would count on the quota.

Given Hansen has a British passport which is by definition an EC one as well, he appears little different to Richards, Millard and Withers who would all (if my understanding is correct) be classed as overseas players. Especially as Hansen is now officially a Kiwi having represented NZ.

I like Hansen as a player and he is different than the usual "Kolpak" signings in that he is playing here in his prime and not on a retirement package. Whether the club will consider him good enough for an overseas player slot if the new rules come in as I anticipate will be interesting.

Dave

I still think the RFL is on really dodgy ground trying to enforce a rule whereby these Kolpak lads are suddenly banned from playing in Britain.

It's not like the salary cap - another legally unenforceable rule - which is only in force because all the clubs agreed to it. The clubs may well agree to this, but it's only going to take one player to go to law because of it, and I'm sure the whole thing will come crashing down.

Whether we like it or not, quite a few of these guys are settled in Britain with families. They regard this country as their home, and saying they have to change their nationality to be able to play here (the alternative being they are deliberately made unemployable) makes us very vulnerable to accusations of the most overt sort of racism.

I sympathise with the move to change the Kolpac law. But I fear it may fail badly, and may even bring embarrassment on the game.

Cruncher posted:
I still think the RFL is on really dodgy ground trying to enforce a rule whereby these Kolpak lads are suddenly banned from playing in Britain.

They would not be suddenly banned but the rule phased in to take account of existing contracts. They would be doing it the same way they removed the residency rule (which is why Dallas never came off quota).

It's not like the salary cap - another legally unenforceable rule - which is only in force because all the clubs agreed to it. The clubs may well agree to this, but it's only going to take one player to go to law because of it, and I'm sure the whole thing will come crashing down.

It is based on what soccer are doing. I am not sure of the details but it is a EUFA initiative and RL wants to implement the same thing. When this was mentioned the legal aspect was not being ignored and whatever is implemented will supposedly be legal.

Whether we like it or not, quite a few of these guys are settled in Britain with families. They regard this country as their home, and saying they have to change their nationality to be able to play here (the alternative being they are deliberately made unemployable) makes us very vulnerable to accusations of the most overt sort of racism.

When they brought in the change to the residency rule it was modified not to include players who signed prior to the rule being changed so it was not retrospective so no one was made unemployable. I am sure they would do the same again so any new signings would know the score the same way Barrett knows he is only here for his contract duration while existing "Kolpaks" could play on.

Those signed after the residency rule change, the best example being Dallas, never came off-quota and so in the same way he knew he never would then the same would apply to what are now classed as Kolpak players i.e. they would know their status before they signed.

So this is not a problem.

I sympathise with the move to change the Kolpac law. But I fear it may fail badly, and may even bring embarrassment on the game.

Even if it fails I don't see how attempting to improve the game here by increasing the number of UK payers in the game would be embarrassing.

Dave

Whatever the rights and wrongs of all the above, Hansen is a British citizen and therefore has exactly the same legal status as e.g. Fielden or O'Loughlin. Kolpak has nothing to do with it in his case.

I think that, as happened before when you discussed his status, there are two issues getting muddled up in people's minds.

1. His nationalities. He is a British subject. He has exactly the same rights as the rest of us. He is also a New Zealand citizen - again, with the same rights as other Kiwis. It's not uncommon for people to be in that position.

2. His ethnicity. He is of Polynesian descent. I am not certain of what kind. If Maori, Kolpak is again irrelevant as their origin is NZ, which is not included in that agreement. If "Islander" (e.g. Samoan or Tongan), then in theory he could possibly claim a passport based in that nationality. But as he's alreday British that wouldn't benefit him particularly in terms of what is being discussed here.

His decision has been to play for New Zealand. But as British citizen the only way he could legally be treated as an overaseas player would be if the RFL were to change the rules so that GB-qualified players who opt to play for another country are treated as such. So far, the RFL hasn't. And as, on top of everything else, the lad is a product of Wigan's own junior set-up I don't think they should.

Frankly, I don't think it's worth getting too worried about - there really aren't too many players around who are brought up over here from a young child, are a product of a GB club, have a GB passport, but have a place of birth and family background that means they opt to play for another country.

Nine posted:
Whatever the rights and wrongs of all the above, Hansen is a British citizen and therefore has exactly the same legal status as e.g. Fielden or O'Loughlin. Kolpak has nothing to do with it in his case.

No but the fact is the RFL is trying to limit overseas players with EC passports as well i.e. its not just targeting Kolpak players.

I think that, as happened before when you discussed his status, there are two issues getting muddled up in people's minds.

1. His nationalities. He is a British subject. He has exactly the same rights as the rest of us. He is also a New Zealand citizen - again, with the same rights as other Kiwis. It's not uncommon for people to be in that position.

In terms of employment Pat Richards also has the same rights as the rest of us as he holds an EC passport however he would be counted as an overseas player user the proposed rules.

He has and Aussie and an EC passport. Hansen has a Kiwi one and an EC passport. What is the difference? I can't see any in that both can work here based on their holding an EC passport.

2. His ethnicity. He is of Polynesian descent. I am not certain of what kind. If Maori, Kolpak is again irrelevant as their origin is NZ, which is not included in that agreement. If "Islander" (e.g. Samoan or Tongan), then in theory he could possibly claim a passport based in that nationality. But as he's alreday British that wouldn't benefit him particularly in terms of what is being discussed here.

I don't think any of that is relevant because the RFL it isn't just trying to limit Kolpak players but players with EC passports as well who are overseas players.

His decision has been to play for New Zealand. But as British citizen the only way he could legally be treated as an overaseas player would be if the RFL were to change the rules so that GB-qualified players who opt to play for another country are treated as such. So far, the RFL hasn't. And as, on top of everything else, the lad is a product of Wigan's own junior set-up I don't think they should.

Given they want to limit the likes of Richards they clearly are intent on changing the rules. The interesting thing is how the rule change will affect Hansen. I can't see how they can say a player like Richards is a quota player and Hansen is not when the latter represents NZ.

Frankly, I don't think it's worth getting too worried about - there really aren't too many players around who are brought up over here from a young child, are a product of a GB club, have a GB passport, but have a place of birth and family background that means they opt to play for another country.

Well the whole point of the rule change is that there are more players playing the game in the UK who are eligible for England and GB and Hansen is not.

Despite all his GB credentials from a nationality point of view from a playing point of view he is the sort of player the game wants to limit.

So as I said it will be interesting to see how they deal with his situation as it is pretty unique.

I think what may happen is as they did with the residency rule and players already playing here won't be affected, but if he is affected then Wigan have a decision to make.

Dave

What is the legality of this i thought that if you had an EU passport you could not be refused work in any of the EU countries .The Kolpak agreement is to trade with the EU i was led to believe.

He came from Folly Lane ARLFC my club which is in Swinton. Hansen is a pansy but has great potential

jaws1 posted:
What is the legality of this i thought that if you had an EU passport you could not be refused work in any of the EU countries .The Kolpak agreement is to trade with the EU i was led to believe.

Still have to apply for a work visa and need a letter from the home office to work in this ciuntry from an EU country.