Widnes v Wigan

[First Try Tickle]

Not only have we dropped two valuable points .

Maybe thats just it, are the points that valuable this early in the season. Paul Cullen said on Friday night, that even though they both wanted to win the game, they were probably not to bothered as long as they learned something from it, and he was spot on.

leeds showed last year thay you can spend the first half of the season trying things out and scraping by, then as the season starts to get going, they start to push. narrowly beating in the cup final, they went on to batter Hudds away twice, before beating the team of the season away then saints. maybe this was great planning and something other coaches are looking at.

I'm not saying im happy with this, i went yesterday wanting a win, but maybe testing things out early on and trying out the kids is the best approach. Better than having to do it later in the season when it matters.

Look how many teams are resting players as soon as they get a knock, they know its not worth the risk as it doesn't mean a lot. Its the same with the disciplinary, teams are admitting guild to get the ban knowing they won't be missed.

Its very poor for our sport, but as long as you can win the grand final by scrapping in 8th, then its going to happen. The play offs should be top 5 and stacked heavily in the favour of the top teams. Then we would have to play to win every week, instead of holding back.

My one issue yesterday is that the bench should have contained one or two of the rested players, so if we were coming up stuck then he could have thrown Sam on to sort it out. Then again, if they have the same opinion as i have mentioned above, why bother.

Just hope too many supports dont think the same, and look forward to the half season ticket sales.

[Kittwazzer]

I know Leeds sneaked the GF from 5th spot but if teams start to use that as a yardstick, I'd say they are setting off down a very dangerous road. Stains, 3rd last season and Grand Finalists and now out of the 8. And I don't see them getting back in there any time soon!

[DaveO]

Not only have we dropped two valuable points .

Maybe thats just it, are the points that valuable this early in the season. Paul Cullen said on Friday night, that even though they both wanted to win the game, they were probably not to bothered as long as they learned something from it, and he was spot on.

They will be valuable if we slip up again. You always take the points on offer and this idea games now do not matter is just wrong.

Under Madge we finished 1st and 2nd and won two trophies. Under Noble we had the "competition only starts in August" mentality and won nothing.

Given Wane just had no need to make that team selection we could have still bloodied a couple of young players alongside the seniors and got the points as well.

leeds showed last year thay you can spend the first half of the season trying things out and scraping by, then as the season starts to get going, they start to push. narrowly beating in the cup final, they went on to batter Hudds away twice, before beating the team of the season away then saints. maybe this was great planning and something other coaches are looking at.

No they didn't. Sinfield played in 27 games and Burrow 25. They never did as Wane just did all season. They were just poor and had a few injuries early on. When Bradford won it from 3rd the same thing happened (as well as Leeds and Saints who finished above them copping a load of injuries in the final few weeks of the season).

I'm not saying im happy with this, i went yesterday wanting a win, but maybe testing things out early on and trying out the kids is the best approach. Better than having to do it later in the season when it matters.

Look how many teams are resting players as soon as they get a knock, they know its not worth the risk as it doesn't mean a lot. Its the same with the disciplinary, teams are admitting guild to get the ban knowing they won't be missed.

Rest a single player with a niggle is again not what Wane did. He went for wholesale changes and that isn't going to work. On paper the team might have looked capable to him of beating Widnes but I can't believe he doesn't understand that just because it looks OK on paper that it will actually function as a unit on match day just like that.

My one issue yesterday is that the bench should have contained one or two of the rested players, so if we were coming up stuck then he could have thrown Sam on to sort it out. Then again, if they have the same opinion as i have mentioned above, why bother.

Just hope too many supports dont think the same, and look forward to the half season ticket sales.

Well you have hit the nail on the head there. If the coaches put no value on such games then the fans will soon cotton on.

It has always amazed me in Australia where they have had the playoffs for decades that the league competition is so intense in every single round. It must be an attitude thing. Maybe the fans and clubs put a lot more store in winning a single game of footy because they know there can only be one GF winner and they have no CC or other trophies to win so league games are important in their own right.

We need to get the same approach here. The idea teams can coast because Leeds won it from 5th or because they think finishing 8th is OK isn't going to give us a high quality intense competition that the fans will keep paying to see.

[DaveO]

I can't believe there is any one of us who genuinely thinks Wane got that one right. He didn't.

Exactly.

These two points you made are linked I think:

He rested too many leaders, it was bound to have an impact on our game, particularly away from home against a motivated team paying one of their few massive games full of people who Wigan discarded. That can explain why the standards dropped off in each half.

However, I also can't believe that any one of us doesn't think our team on paper was good enough to beat their team on paper. Even in practice we'd think we could win. Heck, we scored tries very easily early in both halves by the sound of it.

The fact we didn't win was in a large way down to the fact he rested too many leaders IMO. The lack of composure to allow them back into the game and win it seems to me pointing to the fact we lacked leadership on the field.

I don't think Wane will learn a massive amount about the individuals who played yesterday, debut or not, played well or not. 80 minutes is a small sample to learn a great deal.

Neither do I.

He will learn that you can't play four players who don't play much with the others. He will learn that having only one of your usual 5/6 leaders out there isn't helpful for younger players coming in or for you to take momentum back in your favour.

I agree with that as well but we will see this Friday how much he has learned I think.

I think he is trying to let the players know that losing wasn't good enough and excuses aren't good enough. Him taking the blame for team selection doesn't stop the fact that an 18 point lead with 30 minutes to go was lost. The team selection by then was made. The players on the picth got us into that position. It was going ok wasn't it, panic over we thought...

But as far as I can tell he hasn't taken the blame for a poor team selection. He is just saying we should have won. The fact the team on paper seemed capable in his eyes missed the vital bit of the jig saw which was that when the chips are down experience is what have would have got the side the win.

Regardless of what we think about the team selection. We shouldn't have lost to Widnes. We shouldn't have let an 18 point lead go against any team. Every person within the club needs to know that and if you were playing and involved in losing that lead then you need to know that isn't good enough. I'm sure Wane knows this. I'm sure he knows his involvement wasn't good enough, just as the players involvement wasn't collectively good enough in that last 30 minutes of each half.

The only reason we should not have lost to Widnes when 36-18 up was if we had blown an 18 point lead with a full strength side out. With the leaders out of the team what happened is clearly not that much of a shock. It is the main reason why we lost IMO and that was down to Wane.

So if he spends this week chewing out players without acknowledging his own huge mistake then that will be very poor.

[Fujiman]

Right, breaking my rules here but this is 20,002

HOWEVER,

Players do need blooding BUT no coach is being fair to any youngsters blooding so many players collectively against a team fielding several Wiganers / ex Wigan players with the added motivation that brings.

Jack Hughes is learning first grade / playing centre. He needs Pat alongside him. Add say 1 player, Joe Mellor or Matty Russell. You really cannot afford any more especially when you remove the heart / spine of the team. Moreover, the very sould of this team, our captain, Lockers. If needs must you can scrape by with inexperienced players on the fringes alongside the leader (the best all round player in SL) / 'leaders' BUT to send our young guns into battle without leadership smacked of General Haigh not Super Shaun Wane.

Waney IMO is showing traits as to why top NRL coaches are always better than British coaches. He is too pre - occupied with high risk razzle dazzle attacking RL which will never in the long run beat the clinical professionalism of NRL coached RL.

Today was a mistake, a mistake on his (Waney's) part. The team changed several times before kick off during the week etc. Several changes were cosmetic. Waney treated the youngsters in his charge unfairly IMO. Those young lads deserved to play with Lockers, with Pat etc. Wigan RLFC are similarly to blame for continually allowing our loanees to play against us. Arrogant!

2 losses down to arrogance.

Is the Wigan Way arrogance?

P.S He is rarely right but on this occasion IMO Dave O is correct.

WTF You come out of self imposed exile and in your first post you agree with Dave O
FWIW i think Wane under estimated the Widnes side and over rated his youngsters then add in a bit of naivety and you end up with Sundays results. Time will tell if he's learned from the mistake.

[ian.birchall]

Too many untried youngsters in a game results in the Leeds / Saints 70+ defeats / nightmares.

Nonsense CP wrong again, it was Millward and Millward only.

[ian.birchall]

Having now seen all the tries on Sky I can only say that whatever the team, tactics,coaches foul up we deserved to lose the match for the way we let Winterstein make 5 yards and get over the line whether or not he knocked on as one earlier poster claimed. The tackling for that was appalling.

[sheepsteeth]

i haven't read everyone elses opinion because 8 pages was too much!!!

i have been to annoyed to post until now!!

my opinion on it all is this, I'm annoyed by this loss not worried/upset like i was after the Hudds game.

I'm not worried because of the team selected!!!

i have to say though i hope Wane has learnt a big lesson, he should have filtered in one or of the youngsters not all of them at once!!

i didn;t go to the game but if i did i would be wanting my money back because the fans who paid to go have been short changed!!!

the main reason i'm annoyed is we had a chance to go top and we've needlessly thrown away points which could come back to bite us later in the year.

if we'd have won yesterday we'd have been 5 points ahead of the stains and i think that would have meant one of our main rivals would not be finishing above us!!!

[cpwigan]

Too many untried youngsters in a game results in the Leeds / Saints 70+ defeats / nightmares.

Nonsense CP wrong again, it was Millward and Millward only.

Millward did not help BUT injuries and the absence of Lockers and Hock was crucial with too many players forced to step up too quickly. Coincidence, not. No Lockers we have our 2 worst consecutive defeats; 2012 no Lockers we lose badly. Forget coaches / eras. Lockers is the key to a good Wigan team.

[ancientnloyal]

It was a mistake by Wane and many could tell that Widnes would be up for it looking at early squad let alone the team one on the day.

Maguire didn't get it all right early on also did he... Leeds in the Cup when we lost we had a kid on the bench - didn't play. That didn't happen once.

For me this was a mistake based on the squad. Wigan as a team are sound, it's been proven the 4 games previous so let's not get too carried away. This shouldn't happen again and a lesson learned.

But, does anyone think that Wane is trying to make the dressing room into the Glory Days when we should be creating our own noughties era?