A W O L

[AncientWarrior]

The point that some posters seem to have missed is that Solomona is still contracted to Castleford and bound by a (presumably) standard contract, the like of which has been used throughout the game since time immemorial.

I haven't read anyone claim to the contradictory

He is legally bound to play rugby league for them during the currency of the contract. He cannot "retire". He must comply with the terms of the contract. Neither can he change sports. He must continue unless prevented from carrying out his obligations say by serious injury.

Why can he not retire? Why can he not change sports? Are these stipultaions written into his contract? Hence why at most I guess Castleford may only be able to retain his registration should he ever return to League. What happens if he returned AFTER his RL contract expires would be guesswork but I would assume he would simply become a "free agent" again

If he fails to do these things, he is in breach of the contract. Anyone who assists or induces him to break his contract is guilty of 'tortious interference' and may be subject to an Order for Punitive Damages.

Cas are entitled to Compensatory Damages and Punitive Damages.

Hence why I stated at most he might be forced to pay up the remaining contract to Castleford (whatever it was they were paying him) and nothing else.

I would be correct would I not AncientWarrior, that you either work or are currently in employment. Are you suggesting that in no way can you or should you EVER be allowed to gain employment elsewhere simply because you had a contract?

I think I made my points clearly. Any contract is legally binding on all parties. Any deviation can only take place with the consent of all parties. These aren't difficult concepts.

I retired 21 years ago. Contract Law hasn't changed fundamentally since then.

[butt monkey]

I think I made my points clearly. Any contract is legally binding on all parties. Any deviation can only take place with the consent of all parties. These aren't difficult concepts.

I retired 21 years ago. Contract Law hasn't changed fundamentally since then.

Not changed much in 21 years?? Are you kidding me?? I suppose you never heard of Bosman either??

How do players move on then when they are contracted to a club? Coaches get the sack? Return home on compassionate grounds? Retire from sports despite still having contract length remaining?

Another posted has indicted that players managers approached Wigan after Old Trafford demanding more money/remunerations etc. Do you think Wigan waived a 21 year old contract at them all and said f-off or did they have to renegotiate, otherwise lose them to clubs willing to chance their arm signing players from a club renowned for not stopping players moving on who are unsettled?

[moto748]

23 DEC 2016 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP
N'hampton
24
Sale Sharks
5
HT 14-0


Justifies his signing I suppose. They'd have been nilled without him!

For my sins, I watched the game. Solomona scored a good finish, which the commentators were rhapsodising about; I don't think they see mid-air one handed put-downs in union too much. He had one other chance with a cross-field kick. Should have been a good opportunity to score, but the kick was too short, Solomona was rightly hogging the touch-line, but had to run in towards the defence to catch the ball, which he managed to do, but the chance was gone. Josh saw next to no ball as well, of course, but looked accomplished whenever he did get his hands on it. Again, a chance to score in the second half went begging when an awful final pass went into the crowd instead of his hands. Doesn't matter how good their wingers are, Sale will struggle if the rest of the team and the tactics aren't up to it. At one point I remember they said Sale had 65% possession, but were losing 17-0. Which says it all really.

[AncientWarrior]

I think I made my points clearly. Any contract is legally binding on all parties. Any deviation can only take place with the consent of all parties. These aren't difficult concepts.

I retired 21 years ago. Contract Law hasn't changed fundamentally since then.

Not changed much in 21 years?? Are you kidding me?? I suppose you never heard of Bosman either??

How do players move on then when they are contracted to a club? Coaches get the sack? Return home on compassionate grounds? Retire from sports despite still having contract length remaining?

Another posted has indicted that players managers approached Wigan after Old Trafford demanding more money/remunerations etc. Do you think Wigan waived a 21 year old contract at them all and said f-off or did they have to renegotiate, otherwise lose them to clubs willing to chance their arm signing players from a club renowned for not stopping players moving on who are unsettled?

You still haven't got the hang of this have you?

The Bosman case related more to 'restraint of trade' than to contractual rights and responsibilities. Prior to Bosman a club (in his case a football club) could still require a transfer fee even at the expiration of a contract. The effect of Bosman was to make players 'free agents' at the end of a contract which is why any club worth its salt does not let the contract of good players lapse.

Here's a quote from Fergie: "Once the European Court of Justice ruled that clubs no longer had to pay transfer fees after the expiration of a player's contract, all hell broke loose. Suddenly it was a free-for-all." - Sir Alex Ferguson, Leading, 2015.

[butt monkey]

I think I made my points clearly. Any contract is legally binding on all parties. Any deviation can only take place with the consent of all parties. These aren't difficult concepts.

I retired 21 years ago. Contract Law hasn't changed fundamentally since then.

Not changed much in 21 years?? Are you kidding me?? I suppose you never heard of Bosman either??

How do players move on then when they are contracted to a club? Coaches get the sack? Return home on compassionate grounds? Retire from sports despite still having contract length remaining?

Another posted has indicted that players managers approached Wigan after Old Trafford demanding more money/remunerations etc. Do you think Wigan waived a 21 year old contract at them all and said f-off or did they have to renegotiate, otherwise lose them to clubs willing to chance their arm signing players from a club renowned for not stopping players moving on who are unsettled?

You still haven't got the hang of this have you?

Neither have you

Let's face it. You are Castleford with the attitude that he should be in the Boxing Day team against Wakey. I am leaning towards the fact he will never play for Castleford again. Does that make me "Sale"? Who knows but seeing as they are now in possession of a contract with his name on it that has been ratified by the RFU I think some real RL dirty linen is going to be opened in the coming court case

If it was as simplistic as you make out then Castleford simply needed an injunction to prevent him playing (and possibly seriously injuring himself in the process) Rugby Union and then let the courts take if from their. They didn't. What does that tell you of the situation and the wording of the contract he signed?


Main part of the BBC article for you to read

The legal battle over Denny Solomona's contract could impact both rugby codes in a way the Bosman ruling affected football, according to a prominent sports lawyer.

Despite having two years remaining on his contract with Super League club Castleford Tigers, Solomona retired from rugby league and subsequently joined Premiership rugby union side Sale Sharks on a three-year deal.

Castleford are taking legal action "as a last resort", with the Tigers suing for damages against Sale, Solomona and Andy Clarke - his agent - at the High Court in Leeds.

The case, Tigers chairman Steve Gill said, is "for the integrity of all sports, including, of course, rugby union clubs".

"It may lead to something that has an effect like Bosman - it has the potential to be like that," said David Seligman, a sports lawyer at CM Solicitors, who also works as a football agent.

As the Solomona dispute has exposed legal and financial issues, a number of experts have spoken to BBC Sport about:

The "Pandora's box" that has been opened
How the case has dredged up more than a century of resentment between the rugby codes
The need to close "loop holes" between the sports

"The case throws up a huge amount of issues that have either been under the surface in both games or ones that are inevitably going to arise as rugby becomes more commercialised and professionalised," he told BBC Sport.

"One problem in dealing with issues like this is that there is well over a century of, at times, hostility, sometimes distrust and always a mutual incomprehension."

Rugby Football League chief executive Nigel Wood has said he is worried about the "implications for the game" as the "sanctity of contracts need to be respected".

Solomona retired from one sport, only to start a career in another - breaking his contract with Castleford and leaving them with his registration as a rugby league player, but free to cross codes.

"Rather than rolling over and doing nothing, they have fought it," Seligman told BBC Sport.

"They have had to instruct a QC because there is no easy path to take, there is nowhere to turn to, no single body, which is unfair really."

Collins also feels Solomona's actions, citing his retirement from rugby league, has set a dangerous precedent.

"If a player is unsatisfied with his club or simply sees a bigger pay packet at another club, he can simply quote the words 'I'm retiring from this game or this club' and thereby leave his contract.

"It really does open a Pandora's box of where this will stop - how can a contract be enforced?"

Rob Wilson, a sport finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, says being left with nothing after Solomona's exit "will damage the brand".

"There certainly seems to be a loop hole and it's one that could hurt clubs in both rugby league and rugby union financially.

Sports lawyer Seligman said the case should prompt the establishment of a global independent arbitration body capable of dealing with such cases, closing the legal hole between the two sports.

He said football benefits from having Fifa as its "overarching body" to look in to disputes.

"There really does need to be something like that in rugby," he added. "Otherwise the contracts are not worth much.

"If there is a dispute in relation to a contract, rather than referring the dispute to the RFU or RFL, refer it on to an outside body. I don't think the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) would be the right one, but CAS could do it.

There you go. LOOPHOLE is the key word here and it appears Solomona and his agent have used that in order for this move

I am NOT condoning it. Just saying I think there is an incredible amount of naivety on show by one or two on here simply because they mention the word "contract". Since when did that ever stop our players leaving the club?

[AncientWarrior]

Not changed much in 21 years?? Are you kidding me?? I suppose you never heard of Bosman either??

How do players move on then when they are contracted to a club? Coaches get the sack? Return home on compassionate grounds? Retire from sports despite still having contract length remaining?

Another posted has indicted that players managers approached Wigan after Old Trafford demanding more money/remunerations etc. Do you think Wigan waived a 21 year old contract at them all and said f-off or did they have to renegotiate, otherwise lose them to clubs willing to chance their arm signing players from a club renowned for not stopping players moving on who are unsettled?

You still haven't got the hang of this have you?

Neither have you

Let's face it. You are Castleford with the attitude that he should be in the Boxing Day team against Wakey. I am leaning towards the fact he will never play for Castleford again. Does that make me "Sale"? Who knows but seeing as they are now in possession of a contract with his name on it that has been ratified by the RFU I think some real RL dirty linen is going to be opened in the coming court case

If it was as simplistic as you make out then Castleford simply needed an injunction to prevent him playing (and possibly seriously injuring himself in the process) Rugby Union and then let the courts take if from their. They didn't. What does that tell you of the situation and the wording of the contract he signed?


Main part of the BBC article for you to read

The legal battle over Denny Solomona's contract could impact both rugby codes in a way the Bosman ruling affected football, according to a prominent sports lawyer.

Despite having two years remaining on his contract with Super League club Castleford Tigers, Solomona retired from rugby league and subsequently joined Premiership rugby union side Sale Sharks on a three-year deal.

Castleford are taking legal action "as a last resort", with the Tigers suing for damages against Sale, Solomona and Andy Clarke - his agent - at the High Court in Leeds.

The case, Tigers chairman Steve Gill said, is "for the integrity of all sports, including, of course, rugby union clubs".

"It may lead to something that has an effect like Bosman - it has the potential to be like that," said David Seligman, a sports lawyer at CM Solicitors, who also works as a football agent.

As the Solomona dispute has exposed legal and financial issues, a number of experts have spoken to BBC Sport about:

The "Pandora's box" that has been opened
How the case has dredged up more than a century of resentment between the rugby codes
The need to close "loop holes" between the sports

"The case throws up a huge amount of issues that have either been under the surface in both games or ones that are inevitably going to arise as rugby becomes more commercialised and professionalised," he told BBC Sport.

"One problem in dealing with issues like this is that there is well over a century of, at times, hostility, sometimes distrust and always a mutual incomprehension."

Rugby Football League chief executive Nigel Wood has said he is worried about the "implications for the game" as the "sanctity of contracts need to be respected".

Solomona retired from one sport, only to start a career in another - breaking his contract with Castleford and leaving them with his registration as a rugby league player, but free to cross codes.

"Rather than rolling over and doing nothing, they have fought it," Seligman told BBC Sport.

"They have had to instruct a QC because there is no easy path to take, there is nowhere to turn to, no single body, which is unfair really."

Collins also feels Solomona's actions, citing his retirement from rugby league, has set a dangerous precedent.

"If a player is unsatisfied with his club or simply sees a bigger pay packet at another club, he can simply quote the words 'I'm retiring from this game or this club' and thereby leave his contract.

"It really does open a Pandora's box of where this will stop - how can a contract be enforced?"

Rob Wilson, a sport finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, says being left with nothing after Solomona's exit "will damage the brand".

"There certainly seems to be a loop hole and it's one that could hurt clubs in both rugby league and rugby union financially.

Sports lawyer Seligman said the case should prompt the establishment of a global independent arbitration body capable of dealing with such cases, closing the legal hole between the two sports.

He said football benefits from having Fifa as its "overarching body" to look in to disputes.

"There really does need to be something like that in rugby," he added. "Otherwise the contracts are not worth much.

"If there is a dispute in relation to a contract, rather than referring the dispute to the RFU or RFL, refer it on to an outside body. I don't think the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) would be the right one, but CAS could do it.

There you go. LOOPHOLE is the key word here and it appears Solomona and his agent have used that in order for this move

I am NOT condoning it. Just saying I think there is an incredible amount of naivety on show by one or two on here simply because they mention the word "contract". Since when did that ever stop our players leaving the club?

butt monkey, you have been a fine adversary and I admire a chap who sticks to his guns but it's almost Christmas and I wish you and yours and all the supporters of our Ancient and Loyal Club, the staff and players and everyone who has a modicum of interest in Wigan Warriors a very merry Christmas and a happy, healthy and successful New Year. Btw, I surrender.

[thegimble]

Not changed much in 21 years?? Are you kidding me?? I suppose you never heard of Bosman either??

How do players move on then when they are contracted to a club? Coaches get the sack? Return home on compassionate grounds? Retire from sports despite still having contract length remaining?

Another posted has indicted that players managers approached Wigan after Old Trafford demanding more money/remunerations etc. Do you think Wigan waived a 21 year old contract at them all and said f-off or did they have to renegotiate, otherwise lose them to clubs willing to chance their arm signing players from a club renowned for not stopping players moving on who are unsettled?

You still haven't got the hang of this have you?

Neither have you

Let's face it. You are Castleford with the attitude that he should be in the Boxing Day team against Wakey. I am leaning towards the fact he will never play for Castleford again. Does that make me "Sale"? Who knows but seeing as they are now in possession of a contract with his name on it that has been ratified by the RFU I think some real RL dirty linen is going to be opened in the coming court case

If it was as simplistic as you make out then Castleford simply needed an injunction to prevent him playing (and possibly seriously injuring himself in the process) Rugby Union and then let the courts take if from their. They didn't. What does that tell you of the situation and the wording of the contract he signed?


Main part of the BBC article for you to read

The legal battle over Denny Solomona's contract could impact both rugby codes in a way the Bosman ruling affected football, according to a prominent sports lawyer.

Despite having two years remaining on his contract with Super League club Castleford Tigers, Solomona retired from rugby league and subsequently joined Premiership rugby union side Sale Sharks on a three-year deal.

Castleford are taking legal action "as a last resort", with the Tigers suing for damages against Sale, Solomona and Andy Clarke - his agent - at the High Court in Leeds.

The case, Tigers chairman Steve Gill said, is "for the integrity of all sports, including, of course, rugby union clubs".

"It may lead to something that has an effect like Bosman - it has the potential to be like that," said David Seligman, a sports lawyer at CM Solicitors, who also works as a football agent.

As the Solomona dispute has exposed legal and financial issues, a number of experts have spoken to BBC Sport about:

The "Pandora's box" that has been opened
How the case has dredged up more than a century of resentment between the rugby codes
The need to close "loop holes" between the sports

"The case throws up a huge amount of issues that have either been under the surface in both games or ones that are inevitably going to arise as rugby becomes more commercialised and professionalised," he told BBC Sport.

"One problem in dealing with issues like this is that there is well over a century of, at times, hostility, sometimes distrust and always a mutual incomprehension."

Rugby Football League chief executive Nigel Wood has said he is worried about the "implications for the game" as the "sanctity of contracts need to be respected".

Solomona retired from one sport, only to start a career in another - breaking his contract with Castleford and leaving them with his registration as a rugby league player, but free to cross codes.

"Rather than rolling over and doing nothing, they have fought it," Seligman told BBC Sport.

"They have had to instruct a QC because there is no easy path to take, there is nowhere to turn to, no single body, which is unfair really."

Collins also feels Solomona's actions, citing his retirement from rugby league, has set a dangerous precedent.

"If a player is unsatisfied with his club or simply sees a bigger pay packet at another club, he can simply quote the words 'I'm retiring from this game or this club' and thereby leave his contract.

"It really does open a Pandora's box of where this will stop - how can a contract be enforced?"

Rob Wilson, a sport finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University, says being left with nothing after Solomona's exit "will damage the brand".

"There certainly seems to be a loop hole and it's one that could hurt clubs in both rugby league and rugby union financially.

Sports lawyer Seligman said the case should prompt the establishment of a global independent arbitration body capable of dealing with such cases, closing the legal hole between the two sports.

He said football benefits from having Fifa as its "overarching body" to look in to disputes.

"There really does need to be something like that in rugby," he added. "Otherwise the contracts are not worth much.

"If there is a dispute in relation to a contract, rather than referring the dispute to the RFU or RFL, refer it on to an outside body. I don't think the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) would be the right one, but CAS could do it.

There you go. LOOPHOLE is the key word here and it appears Solomona and his agent have used that in order for this move

I am NOT condoning it. Just saying I think there is an incredible amount of naivety on show by one or two on here simply because they mention the word "contract". Since when did that ever stop our players leaving the club?

When did a Wigan player leave without permission by the club when still in contract. Can you name one that left in the middle of a contract and we did not either ok him going or get a fee for him.

Just wondering

[bill.inger]

[quote

When did a Wigan player leave without permission by the club when still in contract. Can you name one that left in the middle of a contract and we did not either ok him going or get a fee for him.

Just wondering [/quote]

I was always a bit curious about the Gary Heatherington (yes, that one) deal He was signed on, played one game against Saints one Boxing day then disappeared and took his hooks to Wakefield, I believe.
Maybe Bilko has some info on this or your question in general.

[butt monkey]

Wasn't there something surrounding Barrie Jon Mather?

I feel sure he argued he signed his contract extension for Wigan under "duress"

[butt monkey]

Btw Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you to AncientWarrior.

Nothing personal whatsoever so if you felt that way inclined then I apologise

One thing I DO agree with you is that the situation stinks and Solomona and his agent shouldn't be allowed to "get away" with this.