Drop Ainscough at your peril Noble!

[cpwigan]

The penny might drop that "up the middle" was all the team were capable of. The packs job is to stop the forwards coming through. There is little point in off loading when the team are not capable of wide enough fast enough. Higham had a good final year but it was still pass and crash. The back row now is better than the back row last year. There is speed and ball movement. OK the first half is strewn with handling errors but week on week the team is getting better. When Gleeson and Roberts get on the same wavelength we will have a team second to none in the league. The biggest problem Wigan has shown in the last couple of years is lack of speed getting the ball wide. This allows the opposition props to compress at play of the ball. Line breaks are difficult when the weight of the pack is bearing down on you. Noble has built and is building a team. Ainscough is a member of that team but who should be dropped. Pat we need. Phelps is showing form. Roberts and Gleeson is building a partnership. If he plays SA who drops out. We need the forwards against St H.
Noble is not so bad a coach as this site portays. 3 years is not long to rebuild a team. Some have been trying it sinse time began and have not got there yet. This season is not over but the hangman is already on the scaffold. 8 points and 8 places seperate ST. H and us. Two wins reduces that to four if the boys hold them. The wheels are currently off the Leeds bus and Stains wheelnuts are loose
Jim

Eek

Where to start

The Wigan squad has depth, moreso than any other SL squad including Leeds and St Helens. On paper the Wigan squad matches up v any in SL particularly if others suffer a few injuries.

The penny might drop that "up the middle" was all the team were capable of. The packs job is to stop the forwards coming through.

I have never read such a silly statement. Wigan's best form this season, last season, the season before is when we get the opportunity to play rugby. We rarely do because Brian Noble is not good enough as a coach and we signed Stuart Fielden. Like it or not that signing has been an unmitigated disaster. In terms of expenditure v product, SF ranks as criminal and begs questions re the judgement of Brian Noble.

RL is not an either / or sport. You defend and you attack. Every player back or forward. With ball in hand you have to break teams up the centre before you go wide. You can move the ball laterally all day but if the defence has not been stretched / put on the back foot first you will struggle to score tries. Punch holes down the centre and you create gaping holes out wide. Again RL is not an either / or sport. We struggle to punch holes which is down to A) Coaching strategy and B) Players.

Wakefield was actually an ugly game but it delivered 2 points. The game had no continuity and was punctuated by mistakes and the referee having to award penalties. Ironically Danny Brough coming back from injury has possibly weakened Wakefield. Individually he shines, collectively they suffer. As far as I can understand Noble has decided to try to reduce mistakes, hope for parity in terms of possession / field position and once in the opposition 20 we have players who can make tries.

The fundamental shift is that the team in 2008 had a strong right side bias, in 2009 it has a huge left side bias. I smile re comments about X playing better / worse. Phelps played no better or worse at left centre than right centre. It's simply that the players on the left receive far more ball and quality ball than those on the right. Martin Gleeson for large parts of the Wakey game may not have existed. Had Phelps been playing right centre he would hardly have touched the ball. Much IMO will depend upon whether Gidley is fit at the weekend.

Supporters are often 'brainwashed'for want of a better word. A coach puts the thought in their head that Ainscough has weaknesses and ever try conceded involving him = Ainscough the weakness. He does have areas that need to be improved. He does make mistakes but v Wakey to blame him for 2 tries astonishes me and shows how gullible fans can be. The classic is the first try conceded. 1) Wakey should never have had field position / possession but Phelps who nobody criticised conceded 2 successive penalties, the deence in the subsequent tackles was poor. We never dominated. The kick was then deflected by Tommy. Some coaches ban players in the line from trying to stop kicks with their feet or hands. So we had fans blaming a young right sided person playing on the left side for a deflecting kick after more experienced players had made several mistakes. Yet 90% of fans said ah his weakness. I wonder who put that thought in their heads. He then said ah but he only had to walk over the line. Mmm funnily for his second try he tooked a real bashing and looked injured afterwards. No mention of that by coach / fans.

Likewise there is a desparation amongst fans to praise players who play well after playing badly several times whilst ignoring the players playing consistently well. Tim Smith made 2 very good passes. Our captain produced an identical cut out pass for an Ainscough try. Nobody mentioned it. Here's a guy making umpteen tackles and his runs in the last fortnight have been outstanding. He did not conceded a single penalty v Wakey either. When things were going pearshaped early in the 2nd half who stood in at first receiver and LED the team? Lockers. No mention by our coach, no mention by you, the fans. Maybe Noble/IL have more influence over the fans than they realise. Maybe fans watch matches but do not see?

Think people

[cpwigan]

At the core of it all is the belief that the team comes before everything else. And, for Bennett, if it means making decisions that upset people or make him unpopular, even with his friends, so be it.

"A lot of things I have had to do in my life are totally opposite to the person inside me," Bennett told me in a rare and candid interview.

"But the one underlying thing that has always got me across the line is doing what is right - doing the right thing by the team. It is a difference between the successful and the unsuccessful coaches."

According to Bennett, if coaches shy away from making difficult, perhaps even ruthless, decisions they will not last. Yet it is obvious he cares deeply about his players.

Legendary Australian half-back Alfie Langer spent a considerable portion of his career playing for Bennett and puts their relationship like this: "He's not only a father figure, I think I class him as one of my best friends."

Bennett adds. "My bond with my players is what I value most of all. They are never far from your thoughts and you are always there for them."

Which must make it hard when he decides it is in the best interests of the club to move a few of them on.

Bennett puts it this way: "I liken myself to a headmaster at school. They might be with you four or five years but a time comes when they have to move on. There is a kid in grade eight and he or she wants the opportunity you gave the other person."

[GeoffN]

Meanwhile, Ainscough's overall total for the season went up to 17 today after he was officially credited with four tries in Wigan's 32-20 Challenge Cup fourth-round win at Barrow earlier this month.

Originally he was awarded three but, following video evidence, he has now been credited with one thought to have been scored by Carmont.

:conf:

A lot of us there at the time were convinced Shaun, not George, had scored that one. I'm only surprised it's taken so long to rectify.

[DaveO]

The penny might drop that "up the middle" was all the team were capable of.

Since when has this team been capable of that?

We tried it v Les Cats and got beaten. We have tried it far too many times over recent seasons and have got beaten because regardless of what our pack looks like on paper it is not one that wins an "up the middle" competition against the bigger teams.

One of the biggest criticisms of Noble is he likes to play this up the middle game when we have not got the pack to do it, but has over the time he has been here, left the likes of Calderwood without the kind of ball supply he needed to score tries.

When Gleeson and Roberts get on the same wavelength we will have a team second to none in the league.

Until we get the pack sorted out, no we won't. Even the back row is wrong with Tomkins not as effective as last season because Noble won't try Lockers in the 2nd row and let Tomkins play in his natural position.

The biggest problem Wigan has shown in the last couple of years is lack of speed getting the ball wide. This allows the opposition props to compress at play of the ball. Line breaks are difficult when the weight of the pack is bearing down on you. Noble has built and is building a team. Ainscough is a member of that team but who should be dropped. Pat we need. Phelps is showing form. Roberts and Gleeson is building a partnership. If he plays SA who drops out.

That is the wrong way to look at it. How can you drop a winger with 17 tries this season? Of all the backs his name should be first on the list because he has delivered the results.

If Noble did that, which he should, then one of the others must miss out. It won't be the centres (assuming both Gleeson and Carmont are fit) so it's any one of Roberts, Richards or Phelps and it should be one of them because they have not matched Ainscoughs effectiveness so far.

That would be picking on form.

Dropping Ainscough and picking all those three instead would be a return to Noble picking the more senior players regardless of form and if he does that v Saints he deserves an absolute pasting in the press and on the forums, regardless of the result.

We need the forwards against St H.
Noble is not so bad a coach as this site portays. 3 years is not long to rebuild a team.

There is no evidence of any progress and three years is plenty of time to get the team playing better than it is. We are still making basic mistakes that were being made in 2007.

Some have been trying it sinse time began and have not got there yet. This season is not over but the hangman is already on the scaffold.

That is because we lost 7 games already and last season in total lost 11. He hasn't got far to go to be worse for a third season running on that score.

Dave

[AncientWarrior]

I dont think that its the comment as a singular incident that has got peoples backs up, Noble it would seem doing his utmost best to alienate himself from the fans dropping ainsy when he is such good form being one such action, sending goulding away and keeping pryce another.

I think what has annoyed people is not that his is "incorrect" in what he said there was just no need to add that bit on. To be honest i feel he added that last bit because he was a bit egg on face that ainsy only played after carmount withdrew, the comment he said about having to only run 10 yards for his tries also i feel was of this ilk. Its like he was a bit peaved that ainsy had basically shone a glaring light on his error.

From the general feeling on here i think the main problem and you have got it right gw is that the fans have lost all faith and confidence in Noble. Rightly or wrongly fans now want rid. I dont think unless Noble changed his coaching style which lets face it he aint going to do any amount of results is going to turn opinion of him. If we win the CC playing boring up the middle rugby its not going to suddenly change my view that he should go.

A good coach gets the best out of average players, noble seems to be getting the average out of good players

If you take a close look at what Noble allegedly said, the sentences appear disjointed. In other words, the report infers that what he said was a continuous comment volunteered by Noble from a single question but let me suggest that what was written is the response to not one but a number of questions which the reporter has 'run together'.

For instance the interview would probably have gone along these lines:

Q. 'What a great game by Shaun Ainscough, Brian, you must be very pleased.'
A. "He's got superb prowess. He's strong, he's quick and he knows how to finish."
Q. 'Just spoken to John Kear and he thinks Shaun made the difference between the two teams.'
A. "He'll be the first to compliment those who put him in those positions because I don't think he's had to run more than 10 metres for any of his tries but we've seen some of his fantastic breaks."
Q. 'Are you concerned though that he conceded two tries from kicks by Danny Brough?'
A. "There's no doubt that he's still a work in progress and there are other parts of his game that he needs to improve on. That goes for all our young kids. We're a young team."

I think it likely that the interview would have been along similar lines and if that was the case then it would have been a perfectly reasonable response by Noble.

Trust me interviews in sport do not work like that. Interviewers say as little as possible and let the respondent ramble on. This is not Question Time

Why would I want to trust you on this one? Have you some specialist knowledge? It should be acknowledged that in the light of his quite extensive media involvement that Noble will have received a considerable amount of media training so as to avoid those pitfalls. He is too experienced to let some hack induce comments which he will later regret.

[yoda warrior]

injuries.



We rarely do because Brian Noble is not good enough as a coach and we signed Stuart Fielden. Like it or not that signing has been an unmitigated disaster. In terms of expenditure v product, SF ranks as criminal and begs questions re the judgement of Brian Noble.


Supporters are often 'brainwashed'for want of a better word. A coach puts the thought in their head that Ainscough has weaknesses and ever try conceded involving him = Ainscough the weakness. He does have areas that need to be improved. He does make mistakes but v Wakey to blame him for 2 tries astonishes me and shows how gullible fans can be.

fielden was the best forward in the world in at the time. how that signing brings the judgement of the coach into question, i'm not sure.
i don't remember noble blaming ainscough for 2 tries. souds like you've been brainwashed by all the anti noble talk.
also our style of play isn't as consertvative as people think.paul cullen made note on boots n all how willing we are to push the ball. every team has to get forward first. i think we see saints throwing the ball around and compare us with them. they've been very good for years at forwards working in pairs and conequently isolating defenders early in the tackle count which enables them quick ptb's and can shift the ball. we're al dissapointed with where we are in the league but we are improving + key players are coming into form. i can't believe how pesamistic people are for the rest of the season.

[GeoffN]

We're all dissapointed with where we are in the league but we are improving + key players are coming into form. i can't believe how pesamistic people are for the rest of the season.

How can you say we're improving based on beating Wakey & Celtic?

We've already lost 7 games this season, as DaveO pointed out elsewhere.

At the same point in last season, we'd lost 5 (from 13), and only lost 12 all season (SL & CC) - so to show a real improvement we can only lose 4 more games. Would you be prepared to bet on that?

[cpwigan]

injuries.



We rarely do because Brian Noble is not good enough as a coach and we signed Stuart Fielden. Like it or not that signing has been an unmitigated disaster. In terms of expenditure v product, SF ranks as criminal and begs questions re the judgement of Brian Noble.


Supporters are often 'brainwashed'for want of a better word. A coach puts the thought in their head that Ainscough has weaknesses and ever try conceded involving him = Ainscough the weakness. He does have areas that need to be improved. He does make mistakes but v Wakey to blame him for 2 tries astonishes me and shows how gullible fans can be.

fielden was the best forward in the world in at the time. how that signing brings the judgement of the coach into question, i'm not sure.
i don't remember noble blaming ainscough for 2 tries. souds like you've been brainwashed by all the anti noble talk.
also our style of play isn't as consertvative as people think.paul cullen made note on boots n all how willing we are to push the ball. every team has to get forward first. i think we see saints throwing the ball around and compare us with them. they've been very good for years at forwards working in pairs and conequently isolating defenders early in the tackle count which enables them quick ptb's and can shift the ball. we're al dissapointed with where we are in the league but we are improving + key players are coming into form. i can't believe how pesamistic people are for the rest of the season.

I was anti Noble before it became fashionable Yoda

Fielden was judged by some (primarily British) as the best forward in the world at the time. Personally, I never shared that view. He was coached for club and country by Noble. Surely Noble should have seen through that / or realised he was past his sell by date? Instead Noble sent our club on a pth of cheating and snookered our salary cap for years to come by paying Fielden an extraordinary salary. Look at the Wayne Bennett quote to see how a coach should act.

Identify the weaknesses of Ainscough v Wakey, v other clubs??? Fielding grubbers / cross field kicks is the only obviously identifiable weakness. The press identified that on the basis of Noble's comments. Comments that questions Noble's judgement again.

Unimaginative sets have killed mine and others enthusiasm for Noble RL. We have a better squad depth wise than any SL club including Leeds and Saints. Leeds and Saints have key players that deliver, we do not. E.G Fielden.

Lindsay backed Noble, IL has now backed Noble I.E Fielden, Gleeson. It is time he delivered. Instead we have gone backwards. We have gone backwards in a SL that has gone backwards. Yes, teams are more equal but the bar has not been raised. It has been lowered.

If IL believed Noble was the man why has his contract not been extended? Penrith have just done so with Elliott.

[GeoffN]

It's often helpful to look at the facts, rather than opinions of how we're playing, and perhaps the most rational criterion to use is the win/loss % over the three years he's been here:

2006 (19 games) 59% won

2007 (31 games) 58%

2008 (30 games) 50%

2009 (13 games) 46%

The "progression" is similar when you look at points for/against.

I see little improvement there...

[Wigan_forever1985]

I really cant see how anyone can defend Noble, i mean does anyone on here actually believe he is a good coach?. If so could you please tell me why not in a confrontational way i am trying to look at it from the other side of the coin yet he comes out terrible on both for me.