21-man squad v Catalans

[fozzieskem]

Simply to many players not good enough and yes we have no props at Wigan.
This is only going to get worse.

No props no go forward, what the hell are we doing with these young not good enough props, it's just unbelievable.
I agree we are in a very false position in the league.
I've never seen this in many years.

I couldn’t agree more. Never looked like breaking a tackle. Pack just not big enough.
I don’t like pointing out individuals after a performance like that, but I just don’t get the hype about Ethan Harvard. Never even looks like beating the first defender, and an absolute penalty machine.
You ca get away with 2-3 smallish forwards if they are grafters, but not 6.
A result like this has been coming for weeks. We beat Salford 17-16 with a late drop goal, Wire put 62 on them last night.

I agree in regards to Havard,he may well turn into a gem but at the moment hes a way off for me,the same thing with Smithees,hes one I dont get whet the fuss is about, maybe its me and ive just been missing what he does but plenty of time for both players to develop

[bertina]

We need a new team or a new coach absolutely clueless in attack in defence just standing still easy 10 every play the ball

I asked the question last week, does anyone think we have progressed under Lam?

I don’t think Lam is the problem.
He can only pick what he has in front of him. Wayne Bennett cant turn small forwards into big ones.

[morley pie eater]

Sam Tomkins is head and shoulders above anyone else.

He is and IL decided he wasn’t worth what he originally agreed to pay him and actually went and said this in public to justify it which in itself was an appalling way to deal with the situation.

Dave, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, and I absolutely agree with you both that Sam is the stand-out full back.

But that is the view from where we are now. Back then, Sam had cost IL a fortune and had failed to produce the goods. (There are also stories that his arrogance towards young players was unhelpful to say the least.)

No reasonable employer, and especially one who is personally bankrolling a top salary-earner, could have been expected to offer Sam the same terms at that time.

Just read Josie's reply...she's spot on, (Not unusual, Josie!)

[bertina]

No it didn’t ruin him but something isn’t right with him,that said you can say the same of quite a few of the table toppers this season

Something going on behind the scenes?

Not sure mate,but hand on heart is that the same player we all watched 3 years back?

I don’t think so I know it does take time to settle back back down on the return but he doesn’t look happy or himself to me

Surrounded with crap, that’s why.!!!!!
Having to play like another prop running at brick walls because we don’t have the props to get us going forward.
Bateman should be coming out wide like he did for us before, and like he did in th NRL.
It’s as plain as can possibly be.
We need some clout in the front row.
Andrew John’s and Wally Lewis couldn’t do anything behind this pack.

[EagleEyePie]

I couldn’t agree more. Never looked like breaking a tackle. Pack just not big enough.
I don’t like pointing out individuals after a performance like that, but I just don’t get the hype about Ethan Harvard. Never even looks like beating the first defender, and an absolute penalty machine.
You ca get away with 2-3 smallish forwards if they are grafters, but not 6.
A result like this has been coming for weeks. We beat Salford 17-16 with a late drop goal, Wire put 62 on them last night.

I disagree completely about Havard. He's 20 years old. How many props are playing regularly at that age? Compared to others of his age he's clearly the outstanding prospect. Last season he was our best prop by some distance and one of a small number of props to average more than 100 metres per game (and most of the others were established players like Walmsley and Cooper).

This season he's not been at that level and that's fine. That happens to young players and particularly forwards. Despite that he still averages more metres per game (78) than any of our other middles (next closest is Singleton with 57). And as for being an absolute penalty machine - before today he'd conceded 1 penalty in 7 games. His carries aren't bad either considering very few young forwards are really strong ball carriers - that tends to emerge in their early to mid twenties.

The problem is we clearly rely on Havard and that's not right. He will have bad games. He made a bad mistake today for the first try and even great prospects make mistakes. He's not playing as well this season compared to last and that's common. But at the moment we can't really take him out of the team either. Who do we have that will do better? Pretty much every single prop is less effective than Havard going forward except Bullock he appears to be so short of fitness he can only play about 20 minutes max. And aside from Singleton and Clubb before his ban all our props are making defensive errors too.

It's the same issue we've had for a few years now. Havard should be 4th choice prop, playing a good number of games but also missing a few, not being overplayed and given the task of fighting for his place. What's actually happening is Havard is swapping with Byrne as one of our 2 front line props and neither should be expected to have that role in the squad at their age/stage of development.

[DaveO]

Sam Tomkins is head and shoulders above anyone else.

He is and IL decided he wasn’t worth what he originally agreed to pay him and actually went and said this in public to justify it which in itself was an appalling way to deal with the situation.

Dave, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, and I absolutely agree with you both that Sam is the stand-out full back.

But that is the view from where we are now. Back then, Sam had cost IL a fortune and had failed to produce the goods. (There are also stories that his arrogance towards young players was unhelpful to say the least.)

No reasonable employer, and especially one who is personally bankrolling a top salary-earner, could have been expected to offer Sam the same terms at that time.

When was the last time you saw a chairman come out in public and say he decided he wanted to reduce a players wages because he’s paid a lot but he’s been injured?

Has he been ringing up French and Field saying have a pay cut because your injured?

The fact he was a marquee player should have had nothing to do with it. If a player gets injured it’s bad luck. If Williams comes back as a marquee player and gets injured will IL do the same?

I think the whole saga was wrong, really bizarre and going public like he did pretty appalling. He was obviously trying to cover his back for losing ST but it was very shoddy.

[moto748]

To be honest, because today we didn't have the ball that much (and made precious little progress with it when we did), I found it a bit difficult to determine who was playing where. Shorrocks was on the bench, but seemed to come very early; who did he replace? Was it Bullock? I thought he might have been playing at loose, but he's not a prop, and not big enough to make a lot of ground as one, although he was busy as ever, and seemed to do a hell of lot of tackling. Meanwhile, as noted, Havard and Smithies are certainly not front-line props at the moment. Will they be in the future? Maybe, but I'm not over-impressed with Smithies, discipline always looks an issue for him. Yes, we had terrible performances under Shaun Wane, and we shouldn't forget that. But frankly, he looks twice the coach that Lam is, and suspect few would dispute that.

[widdenoldboy]

50 odd yeras watching Wigan and I'm hard pressed to remember a worse performance.

[Wigan_forever1985]

One thing is clear we have no leaders at the club if you look at the people in that camp

Hastings is out for himself in games and I have no issue with that because that’s probably what he’s here for he will try and win it on his own but he won’t get everyone else in the boat with him

Bateman seems a shadow of his former self in character- he’s playing ok but that dog in him that made worth 6-12 points a game has gone

Tommy is not now nor was ever a leader

Powell again not a leader and not good enough player either

Farrell is a solider he isn’t a leader

[pearsy]

Players should donate there wages to the joining Jack because they suppose to get it for playing rugby league and that garbage was not