What is happening to the Labour Party?

[morley pie eater]

The problem is if you asked the nation to vote on Trident, the overwhelming majority would vote to retain it.

A much smaller less important issue to Britain but vital to Cumbria is that Trident / BNFL Etc whilst not the most desired industries are truly vital to Cumbria.

I'm sure you're right at present, cp. But no-one of any political significance has tried arguing the case.

A majority in Scotland have voted for a party committed to cancelling Trident. I suspect that quite a few of them would not class it as their main reason for doing so. If Nicola Sturgeon, not seen as a far-lefty, can pull this off in Scotland, then why not here?

The key to persuading people would be to detail what the £50 billion would be spent on - a bit like Johnson and Gove's £350 million a week and the NHS, only honest!

[Wiganer Ted]

The Scots are not bothered if Trident left their country.

Where they would get up a sweat is if the UK Govt said ok we'll move Trident and then also the Royal Navy Ship Builing capacity will be moved south of the border.
The SNP and the rest would get very angry about that.

Me, I'd grant them their wish.
Move Trident to Barrow or Falmouth.
Then move Royal Navy shipbuilding to yards on the rivers Tyne, Mersey and Solent.

BTW, see that Corbyn won his court case. This now seems it will run and run.

[Owd Codger]

Good post above Morley. As you probably guessed, I'm very disillusioned at the Labour, which I might add, I have voted all my life and a past member.
I personally think it's dead in the water now and the biggest opposition will come from SNP with an independence agenda.
Dark times ahead!?!

A lot of us feel as disillusioned, but we live in a time of huge change. Social media is weakening the grip of the press barons - who'd have ever thought that a Bernie Saunders, a socialist, would do as well as he did in America? Momentum and the surge in Labour Party membership has tapped into the same vein.

I'm not saying that everything that emerges will be beneficial or even sensible, but change is possible more than it was 20, or even 10 years ago.

Going to the electorate as watered-down Tories is not going to cut it IMO.

Your last comment is spot on and the reason why many Labour voters no longer vote Labour because they now no longer see the present party of today as a real alternative to the Conservatives and which as a result of trying to get the middle ground is now in 'no mans lands' as shown by the result of the last General Election.

Now like the USA, we have two right of centre main political parties and no real alternative with more and more people not voting as to many of the electorate, they are all tarred and feathered with the same brush of looking after number one while the country goes more and more downhill.

[Owd Codger]

The problem is if you asked the nation to vote on Trident, the overwhelming majority would vote to retain it.

A much smaller less important issue to Britain but vital to Cumbria is that Trident / BNFL Etc whilst not the most desired industries are truly vital to Cumbria.

Everything we have that has something to with the Nuclear Industry like Sellerfield and Nuclear Power Stations are situated in areas of high unemployment with tourism as the only other alternative.

Some would call it blackmail. Either you accept it providing jobs or you stop it and no jobs!

[cpwigan]

Labour are not and have never been a watered down Tory party. The coalition was not even a watered down Tory Party.The very real differences between Labour and Conservative can be emphasised with dragging Labour so far left that it becomes unelectable.

[Owd Codger]

The Scots are not bothered if Trident left their country.

Where they would get up a sweat is if the UK Govt said ok we'll move Trident and then also the Royal Navy Ship Builing capacity will be moved south of the border.
The SNP and the rest would get very angry about that.

Me, I'd grant them their wish.
Move Trident to Barrow or Falmouth.
Then move Royal Navy shipbuilding to yards on the rivers Tyne, Mersey and Solent.

BTW, see that Corbyn won his court case. This now seems it will run and run.

Wiganer Ted, seeing that you and one or two others had a lot to say about retaining membership of the EU, what is your opinion on the way the Tories botched up on on the referendum by assuming that the people would ignore the minority Eurosceptics and as usual, support the Prime Minister and the Government by a large majority.

Now as a result of neglecting the wishes of the people on controlling immigration, it has resulted in us out of the EU, a Prime Minister who had a mandate of the people resigning, replaced by one with no mandate and one of the leaders of the leave campaign now in a top Government position of Foreign Secretary.

That is a more important matter than that of the Labour Party and its leadership!

[morley pie eater]

Labour are not and have never been a watered down Tory party. The coalition was not even a watered down Tory Party.The very real differences between Labour and Conservative can be emphasised with dragging Labour so far left that it becomes unelectable.

In a sense, I agree, cp, ... but there aren't only 2 alternatives, Blairism or extreme left. It's the old advertiser's trick: Daz or Brand X.

We need traditional Labour values interpreted for today, led by traditional Labour-type people.

See Roy Hattersley from 2001:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... o2005.news

[Wintergreen]

As I have posted before the reason we need Trident is this.

If Japan had nuclear weapons then they would not have had 2 atomic bombs dropped on them.


You can't put the genie back in the bottle.


Labour are in a very interesting position. A lurch to the left would see them out of power for 20 years, but what's the alternative?

Imo it is to become a left of centre Social Democratic party, and to do this it needs to shed it's past- the manual working class jobs out of which it was created (and we should all be thankfull that it was), have gone, and look to the future.

That future should, imo, be based on capitalism with a social conscience, not socialism.

Hey if it is, maybe people like me will vote for them!

[SJ]

I agree with your post Winter g
I believe in exactly what you say "Capitalism with a Social conscience"I believe the Tory party under May have recognised this and the notion isn't a contradiction in terms.

[Wandering Warrior]

The Scots are not bothered if Trident left their country.

Where they would get up a sweat is if the UK Govt said ok we'll move Trident and then also the Royal Navy Ship Builing capacity will be moved south of the border.
The SNP and the rest would get very angry about that.

Me, I'd grant them their wish.
Move Trident to Barrow or Falmouth.
Then move Royal Navy shipbuilding to yards on the rivers Tyne, Mersey and Solent.

BTW, see that Corbyn won his court case. This now seems it will run and run.

Wiganer Ted, seeing that you and one or two others had a lot to say about retaining membership of the EU, what is your opinion on the way the Tories botched up on on the referendum by assuming that the people would ignore the minority Eurosceptics and as usual, support the Prime Minister and the Government by a large majority.

Now as a result of neglecting the wishes of the people on controlling immigration, it has resulted in us out of the EU, a Prime Minister who had a mandate of the people resigning, replaced by one with no mandate and one of the leaders of the leave campaign now in a top Government position of Foreign Secretary.

That is a more important matter than that of the Labour Party and its leadership!

My view is the most empty can made the loudest noise and the sheep chose to follow blindly! That answer your question?