Salary Cap & Wigan

[Wigan Watcher]

Latest News) Lindsay has said he would be happy with eight points being deducted and would possible not contest this penalty. Rumours around the JJB are he has made it known to the powers above that he would go with this decision.

A rumour from the JJB and it is only that, all the players and coach are not happy with an underlining factor that the players are only looking to the cup and other big games and are not interested in the league as a whole. They feel let down by the club and its management style.

[markill]

does anyone have any concrete ideas on the amount we've overspent, on which players and such like?

the problem might be all the ins and outs during the season last year, and all the loans we sent out and stuff. makes it harder to know where we are at with the cap

[Fraggle]

markill posted:
does anyone have any concrete ideas on the amount we've overspent, on which players and such like?

Apart from the RFL, their auditors and presumably the club management, no. None of the commentators in the media know either, everything is based on speculation, although I suppose there are one or two "informed" sources out there. But there's also a lot of nonsense, such as people suggesting we are £400,000 over because of signing Fielden when we released lots of players to free up space, and you don't pay someone a whole year's salary for 4 months' work.

Until we hear something official then we're all in the dark.

[DaveO]

Wigan Watcher posted:
Latest News) Lindsay has said he would be happy with eight points being deducted and would possible not contest this penalty. Rumours around the JJB are he has made it known to the powers above that he would go with this decision.

I don't quite get this because if the club broke the cap by enough to get a 12 point penalty its no use saying "I will take 8".

Saying he would be happy with 8 sounds as if he doesn't know what the deduction will be and given the auditors findings he will definitely know by how much they say Wigan have broken the cap and therefore he will know what the penalty will be.

The purpose of the hearing is for Wigan to say why we didn't break the cap by X amount not to argue the toss about how many points that will mean we get deducted.

A rumour from the JJB and it is only that, all the players and coach are not happy with an underlining factor that the players are only looking to the cup and other big games and are not interested in the league as a whole. They feel let down by the club and its management style.

That is slightly ironic if true in that it is their wages that are the problem. Were any of them willing to take a pay cut to keep us under the cap?

As to not being up for lesser games in the league that is ridiculous because if they aren't then we may get relegated and if they play well in all the games even with a deduction (depending what it is) it may be possible to still get into the playoffs. So that is a stupid attitude. It would go some way to explaining the dross served up by them v HKR, Hudds and Wakey but it is IMO inexcusable regardless of the club management because they are letting us the fans who help pay their wages down.

Dave

[Cruncher]

The second bit - regarding the players not raising their game for 'run of the mill' matches because they're irritated with management, sounds to me like one of those unlikely rumours.

It was plain to see how delighted the team were to win their league matches against Leeds away and then against Bradford last week. There may be a problem of motivation for clashes against the 'lesser' sides (which is unprofessional enough), but I refuse to believe that they're just not trying because they want to make some kind of point.

First of all, it's not just because of the club's management style that we could shortly be well down the table - if the team hadn't lost several matches they clearly should and could have won, then we'd still be in or around the top six regardless of any points reduction. Secondly, what does it achieve? Trying one week and not trying another - how is that supposed to help, what kind of point is it supposed to be making? I fail to see the logic in it. The ultimate outcome could be relegation, and they'd all then need to find jobs elsewhere, and in some cases, I wouldn't expect the RL world to open up for them.

[Matthew]

This is the sort of thing that generates more rumours than any other. There is a delay until the hearing and fans and media are desperate for as much information as possible - because it could have such an impact on the whole of Super League.

As a result of this; speculation and mis-heard comments rapidly become "facts"

At the moment we have only the official word from the club to go on - and the last thing we heard was that we will be looking for last years penalites to be used (which I agree is not a good sign). Prior to that, we heard that we will be pleading not guilty.

I think that it is highly unlikely that Mo would admit to anyone that he would "settle" for 8 points - even if it were true. If Wigan are pleading not guilty; then saying such things to auditors or other members of the board is stupid and would only highlight his incompetence. As he has shown no signs of wanting to leave - I think that it is unlikely that he would be so flippant about so serious an issue.

Whilst I realistically expect us to be deducted a significant number of points (there is generally no smoke without fire). I think that a large number of ML haters will use the time before the hearing as an opportunity to try and hasten his departure from the club.

Until we get official word from the RFL or the club this is all speculation. Any decision about calling for people to be sacked should be saved until we know for sure what is going to happen

[Cruncher]

Matthew posted:

At the moment we have only the official word from the club to go on - and the last thing we heard was that we will be looking for last years penalites to be used (which I agree is not a good sign). Prior to that, we heard that we will be pleading not guilty.

I think we're still pleading not guilty. As for the bit regarding last year's penalties, we ought to remember that the alleged offence was committed last year - in which case is it so unreasonable of us? There are even Saints fans who think we've got a case here.

I believe (though I could be wrong), that Wigan need to be part of today's hearing because this is the one that will deal with the matter of the penalties, the outcome of which will affect all three clubs, not just us. We are still supposedly contesting the RFL's findings against us in particular next week.

[Panchitta Marra]

Wigan Watcher posted:
Latest News) Lindsay has said he would be happy with eight points being deducted and would possible not contest this penalty. Rumours around the JJB are he has made it known to the powers above that he would go with this decision.

A rumour from the JJB and it is only that, all the players and coach are not happy with an underlining factor that the players are only looking to the cup and other big games and are not interested in the league as a whole. They feel let down by the club and its management style.

Quite right too.
Why should players busting a gut, week in week out, like Trent Barrett, be penalised with an eight point salary cap penalty. They are the ones pulling the fans through the turnstiles, with ambitions of finishing in the grand final, for the plug to be pulled due to managemental errors resulting in points deduction. The club should suffer a massive fine, hitting management where it hurts,and not the players who have ambition.

[DaveO]

Panchitta Marra posted:

Wigan Watcher posted:
Latest News) Lindsay has said he would be happy with eight points being deducted and would possible not contest this penalty. Rumours around the JJB are he has made it known to the powers above that he would go with this decision.

A rumour from the JJB and it is only that, all the players and coach are not happy with an underlining factor that the players are only looking to the cup and other big games and are not interested in the league as a whole. They feel let down by the club and its management style.

Quite right too.
Why should players busting a gut, week in week out, like Trent Barrett, be penalised with an eight point salary cap penalty.

Because it is their job for which they are well paid. Too well if we have busted the cap!

I am sure many people in all walks of life have serious disagreements with their management but they also know if they stopped dong their job they would get the boot.

They are the ones pulling the fans through the turnstiles, with ambitions of finishing in the grand final, for the plug to be pulled due to managemental errors resulting in points deduction. The club should suffer a massive fine, hitting management where it hurts,and not the players who have ambition.

As has been pointed out if the players had pulled their fingers out in several games this season instead of the dross we have seen at times then their ambition would not be in danger of being thwarted by a points deduction. They have tossed at least 8 points away themselves and that was before the auditors said Wigan had a case to answer.

I am not defending the management if they have gone over the cap but if the players think their title ambitions are up the creak because of of any deduction then they have a bit of a cheek to ignore their own failings.

Dave

[Panchitta Marra]

DaveO posted:

Panchitta Marra posted:

Wigan Watcher posted:
Latest News) Lindsay has said he would be happy with eight points being deducted and would possible not contest this penalty. Rumours around the JJB are he has made it known to the powers above that he would go with this decision.

A rumour from the JJB and it is only that, all the players and coach are not happy with an underlining factor that the players are only looking to the cup and other big games and are not interested in the league as a whole. They feel let down by the club and its management style.

Quite right too.
Why should players busting a gut, week in week out, like Trent Barrett, be penalised with an eight point salary cap penalty.

Because it is their job for which they are well paid. Too well if we have busted the cap!

I am sure many people in all walks of life have serious disagreements with their management but they also know if they stopped dong their job they would get the boot.

They are the ones pulling the fans through the turnstiles, with ambitions of finishing in the grand final, for the plug to be pulled due to managemental errors resulting in points deduction. The club should suffer a massive fine, hitting management where it hurts,and not the players who have ambition.

As has been pointed out if the players had pulled their fingers out in several games this season instead of the dross we have seen at times then their ambition would not be in danger of being thwarted by a points deduction. They have tossed at least 8 points away themselves and that was before the auditors said Wigan had a case to answer.

I am not defending the management if they have gone over the cap but if the players think their title ambitions are up the creak because of of any deduction then they have a bit of a cheek to ignore their own failings.

Dave

Dave,
I made the reference to players busting a gut like Trent Barrett, who does not fall in to the same category as some of the other players who seem to have been lacking continual ambition this season.
Players like Barrett are the ones who are genuinly losing out due to the cap pionts deduction. If the club management has made an error of judgement, then they are the ones that should suffer the full consequence.