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Can I ask a question here?

You ask why don't we run angles/lines, but yet we criticise Ashton on here every time he doesn't run straight.

It's like :conf: :conf:

There is a difference between running at an angle when attacking the line and running sideways from a kick return - which unfortunately Ashton seems to do.

From a kick return you want to gain as many metres as possible and running laterally across the pitch allowing defenders to surround you not only means you don't mean make a lot of metres - it also means that the next play of the ball is a one out play that makes about 6 metres most of the time

Matthew posted:
There is a difference between running at an angle when attacking the line and running sideways from a kick return - which unfortunately Ashton seems to do.

From a kick return you want to gain as many metres as possible and running laterally across the pitch allowing defenders to surround you not only means you don't mean make a lot of metres - it also means that the next play of the ball is a one out play that makes about 6 metres most of the time

Bit :conf: on the highlighted bit Matthew, but I am otherwise ok with that and I thank you for the explanation.

turf posted:

Matthew posted:
There is a difference between running at an angle when attacking the line and running sideways from a kick return - which unfortunately Ashton seems to do.

From a kick return you want to gain as many metres as possible and running laterally across the pitch allowing defenders to surround you not only means you don't mean make a lot of metres - it also means that the next play of the ball is a one out play that makes about 6 metres most of the time

Bit :conf: on the highlighted bit Matthew, but I am otherwise ok with that and I thank you for the explanation.

Most attacking kicks that are not inside the 20 are effected to pin your opponent near their try line and try and force a mistake. Additionally by giving them less space to work in - it means that players have less depth in which to work and they (if they are sensible) are less likely to offload or try a flamboyant move.

Obviously it is easier to score a try if you start on the 30 metre line rather than your own 10. So, it make sense for the returning player to try and gain as much ground as possible before being caught by the chasing players. Additionally on kick chases there is more chance of facing a broken line and finding a gap.

As we all know from Ashton's defensive failures it is easier to avoid being stepped if the attacking player is running diagonally away (or laterally) from the tackler. If a player with pace (Ashton) is running straight at a player a sidestep is a lot more likely to be effective. If he breaks the first tackle it is likely that he will have passed his teammates and can therefore pass (particularly effective if he draws another defender before doing this) and continue the move and make a lot of ground.

This is why a lot of people are disappointed with Ashton, if he ran straight back at the defence more often I am confident he would score (and make) a lot more tries - as he is the fastest player in the Wigan team.

When he runs sideways - the defenders will corner him toward the touch line and attempt to stop him cutting back the way he came to find support - this usually leaves him with only a winger to pass to. Once the defenders have enveloped him it is highly likely that not only will the defensive line have been formed but the winger will then take POB and be faced with 3+ defenders; meaning he won't make many yards. Thereby Wigan will probably be inside their 30 metre line after 2 tackles.

I take it you mean that by running sideways, that Ashton has a good chance of being pushed into touch, where as if he ran staright then he wouldn' have to be bothered about that.

If I have got it wrong, I DO apologise Matthew.

turf posted:
I take it you mean that by running sideways, that Ashton has a good chance of being pushed into touch, where as if he ran staright then he wouldn' have to be bothered about that.

If I have got it wrong, I DO apologise Matthew.

That is yet another calamity that can happen from running sideways!

RL is a territory game and when Ashton has been successful it has been when he has run the kick return fast and straight.

It also gives him an opportunity to run at the slower players on the pitch - which again gives him a better chance of a line break.

That is not to say that you should never run sideways on a kick return - however you have to straighten it at some point!

I got it half right Matthew at least!!!

I agree with what you are saying, and it is so frustrating that we dont throw the ball out wide. And why do we have to have a forward touch the ball after every play the ball. But then i think of how much we have improved as a team, and can see improvements week by week. So this makes me thinks the Master plan has not entered its final faiz yet??

Very much and to be honest they need to be more consistent in terms of say defence, enthusiasm, completing sets to allow NObby to devote more and more time to attack. I can only surmise. However, I think training must have been good we can move forward this week. Damn another defeat we will have to go back over what we need to do in defence. Let's recap. That is why for me giving the players that week off a while back was a bad decision.

I agree with this thread ,players working hard without the ball to put the opposition defense in two minds ect, But another point that I don't understand and would like too see is some set moves.

Going back to when Graham Lowe coached us and I know the game has moved on but Fekka could be used a lot better 10 yards out , at the moment in the 10 meter area he gets the ball either stood still or off a ball telegraphed with a group of defenders waiting normally rite in front of the posts , with a set move dummy runners and Barretts passing why do we not use him out wide he is our most destructive runner and has a good offload , would love to see him running at a half back or winger 5 yards out but we don't even look like we have thought of it .

We could use him out of the pack from scrums with Barrett at loose forward to fire the ball away from the base fekka would be a great decoy from that area if not hitting onto the ball ahrrrr..... what do I know :eh: