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with the cap in position it still amazes me that clubs can do this ,proves the whole system of the cap isnt working ,clubs breaking it ie st helens and clubs still going bust

mike binder posted:
with the cap in position it still amazes me that clubs can do this ,proves the whole system of the cap isnt working ,clubs breaking it ie st helens and clubs still going bust

A good point. With the cap limiting players wages to 50% of turnover where else was the club leaking funds?

Personally I think it shows running a full time squad outside of SL means walking a tightrope between success and going out of business. Widnes did not bounce right back when they went down so have had to suffer the lower income of life in NL1 for longer while running a full time squad.

Who is to say had Cas not won the GF that they would not now be in a similar boat and how will Salford fare if they don't get a franchise?

By moving to a new ground and still getting good crowds Widens are not the typical "been in the game 100 years but not progressed" type of club.

By trying to breach that gulf between NL1 and SL it looks like they have simply run out of money.

I have always said promotion and relegation between a fully professional TV funded league like SL and a semi-pro underfunded one like NL2 was stupid and it seems to be the case on this evidence.

It proves to me franchising is the way to go because then clubs like Widnes could plan steadily to apply for a franchise and not go for broke instead.

Dave[/quote]

DaveO posted:

mike binder posted:
with the cap in position it still amazes me that clubs can do this ,proves the whole system of the cap isnt working ,clubs breaking it ie st helens and clubs still going bust

A good point. With the cap limiting players wages to 50% of turnover where else was the club leaking funds?

Personally I think it shows running a full time squad outside of SL means walking a tightrope between success and going out of business. Widnes did not bounce right back when they went down so have had to suffer the lower income of life in NL1 for longer while running a full time squad.

Who is to say had Cas not won the GF that they would not now be in a similar boat and how will Salford fare if they don't get a franchise?

By moving to a new ground and still getting good crowds Widens are not the typical "been in the game 100 years but not progressed" type of club.

By trying to breach that gulf between NL1 and SL it looks like they have simply run out of money.

I have always said promotion and relegation between a fully professional TV funded league like SL and a semi-pro underfunded one like NL2 was stupid and it seems to be the case on this evidence.

It proves to me franchising is the way to go because then clubs like Widnes could plan steadily to apply for a franchise and not go for broke instead.

Dave

[/quote]

Spot on, Dave. I actually think Widnes went about things the wrong way; gambling everything on gaining promotion this year rather than concentrating on putting together a strong franchise application. I believe they'd have had a good chance of gaining a franchise spot, despite not winning promotion, until this financial crisis effectively scuppered their chance.

Conversely, I think Cas would still have got a franchise even if they'd failed to win promotion.

DaveO posted:

mike binder posted:
with the cap in position it still amazes me that clubs can do this ,proves the whole system of the cap isnt working ,clubs breaking it ie st helens and clubs still going bust

A good point. With the cap limiting players wages to 50% of turnover where else was the club leaking funds?

Personally I think it shows running a full time squad outside of SL means walking a tightrope between success and going out of business. Widnes did not bounce right back when they went down so have had to suffer the lower income of life in NL1 for longer while running a full time squad.

Who is to say had Cas not won the GF that they would not now be in a similar boat and how will Salford fare if they don't get a franchise?

By moving to a new ground and still getting good crowds Widens are not the typical "been in the game 100 years but not progressed" type of club.

By trying to breach that gulf between NL1 and SL it looks like they have simply run out of money.

I have always said promotion and relegation between a fully professional TV funded league like SL and a semi-pro underfunded one like NL2 was stupid and it seems to be the case on this evidence.

It proves to me franchising is the way to go because then clubs like Widnes could plan steadily to apply for a franchise and not go for broke instead.

Dave

[/quote]The only thing I dont like about franchising dave, is that teams can end up bottom of the league and stil survive. In that this brings back the Huddersfield scenario, where they just sat at the bottom of the league year in year out. Workington Town in the seventies, used to do just enough to stay in top flight rugby, by winning the minimum matches just to stay up. This kept the crowds to some degree, with the least wage bill (winning wages).

Panchitta Marra posted:
The only thing I dont like about franchising dave, is that teams can end up bottom of the league and stil survive. In that this brings back the Huddersfield scenario, where they just sat at the bottom of the league year in year out. Workington Town in the seventies, used to do just enough to stay in top flight rugby, by winning the minimum matches just to stay up. This kept the crowds to some degree, with the least wage bill (winning wages).

As I understand it, franchises would be given on a 3- or 4-year basis, they wouldn't be permanent.

Interesting point. Will Widnes sue Castleford if it is proved that Cas broke the cap again to gain promotion,