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cpwigan wrote:It is very simple BM, I expect the highest paid player in any club to play to a standard commensurate with his ranking as the highest paid player. Ellery Hanley managed it. Andy Farrell managed it. Darren Lockyer manages it and so on and so on.

And every player got released re relegation which of course can no longer happen.

All those Wigan's players played pre-salary cap era - you cannot hope to base a proper comparison on that!

Yet you are willing to conveniently excuse Barrett's poor form this season (is he not getting high wages??), many others are under-performing - we are at the Salary Cap limit, so all the players, including those set to leave cannot claim to have "fully justified" their wages based upon your hypothesis this season. Ignoring the faults of BN for the minute.

Their is no "I" in team, they all "sink or swim" together - and as such NONE have proved worthy of their high wages this year.

As for ignoring the "relegation" part of my post (which you conveniently stated the obvious ) The fact remains at that time - Wigan could have been, and would have lost virtually all their first team players (ala Castleford). Hence it would have left the club's hierarchy the opportunity to offer minimum wage (or fair pay for a fair days work) to all (if many would have remained) players. Would this have suited you argument re: one player receives more money than any other?

I still would be highly surprised to see that (despite Wigan's salary cap mismanagement over the years and other clubs seemingly flaunting the same rules to sign whoever) that this situation where one "superstar" player receives more money than anyone else is not "followed" at other SL clubs. Fielden was that when he signed from Bradford, and as such it is Wigan's fault that they have not recovered his past form and not sold merchandise based upon his high profile "saleable" value at that time.

cpwigan wrote:It is very simple BM, I expect the highest paid player in any club to play to a standard commensurate with his ranking as the highest paid player. Ellery Hanley managed it. Andy Farrell managed it. Darren Lockyer manages it and so on and so on.

The players you name are 3 all time legends of the game.

Matt King has hardly been value for money for the king's ransom (pun intended) he is being paid - let alone being the stand out player at the club.

Berrigan is another example - he has had a terrible season at Hull but I would imagine is one of their top earners - and Hull's season (bar the thrashing they will get on Saturday) has been an unmitigated disaster.

That is just two examples.

Fielden has had a bad run of form - something that he was man enough to come out and admit - did you ever hear Vaeliki say "well; I've played like a bag'o'sh!te" since day one"?

Fielden has definitely improved in the second half of the season and hopefully will continue to do so - considering the number of injuries he was carrying at the end of last season; combined with the loss of his Mother; he was due a slump in form some time (much as I hate to agree with Phil Clarke).

I sometimes think that your dislike of Noble spills over on to Fielden as Noble brought him over with him from Bradford.

Matt King is in exactly the same situation as Stuart Fielden. He is the highest paid player at his club but far from the best player at that club.

Pre or current Salary Cap is irrelevant. Well actually it is not. To not be delivering in a salary cap era is a cardinal sin. You cannot afford to pay somebody a large % of your cap and have them not deliver.

Funny how when discussing DV, everybody talked about how much he was being paid. Yet, dare to say Fielden is stealing money and whoa how dare thee.

The facts are Stuart Fielden has had a very poor season. Being the 5th best prop for 3/4 of it is simply unacceptable. Barrett, if you analyse our games you will find try after try comes from a pass or kick from the man. Yes, not as good as the previous season but he could only at best match that and like any halfback you are only as good as your forwards. Trent playing for Leeds or Saints would be fantastic. Fielden could play for any team and still be the robotic unnatural RL player he has always been.

cpwigan wrote: Pre or current Salary Cap is irrelevant. Well actually it is not. To not be delivering in a salary cap era is a cardinal sin. You cannot afford to pay somebody a large % of your cap and have them not deliver

This accusation can be levelled against half the players that have played in any year of SL at most clubs bar Stains and Bulls, latterly Leeds.

butt monkey wrote:

cpwigan wrote: Pre or current Salary Cap is irrelevant. Well actually it is not. To not be delivering in a salary cap era is a cardinal sin. You cannot afford to pay somebody a large % of your cap and have them not deliver

This accusation can be levelled against half the players that have played in any year of SL at most clubs bar Stains and Bulls, latterly Leeds.

Not really BM. Casey McGuire/Adam Mogg, Adrian Morley/Gleeson/Briers, I could go on. Most of the best paid players at a club tend to be that clubs best players.

The easy one against and rather cruel would be Sculthorpe in recent seasons.

try looking aat property in spain???

cpwigan wrote:Matt King is in exactly the same situation as Stuart Fielden. He is the highest paid player at his club but far from the best player at that club.

That was the point I was making - he is by far the highest earner at wire - much higher than Briers/Gleeson. Fielden's dip in form has seen him unable to break the line and make enough yards - which as a prop is half his job. The other half is defence and even when he was at the botton of his slump in form; he has still been better in defence than a lot of forwards.

cpwigan wrote: Funny how when discussing DV, everybody talked about how much he was being paid. Yet, dare to say Fielden is stealing money and whoa how dare thee.

I don't think that any Wigan fan would seriously argue against the fact that DV was probably the worst value for money in a Wigan shirt in recent times.

Fielden - whilst he has been poor at times has at least spoken up and admitted that he has not played well - and has never lacked in effort. How many interviews did DV do?

No-one can play at the top of their game for their entire career; which Barrett has proved this year.

cpwigan wrote: The facts are Stuart Fielden has had a very poor season. Being the 5th best prop for 3/4 of it is simply unacceptable. Barrett, if you analyse our games you will find try after try comes from a pass or kick from the man. Yes, not as good as the previous season but he could only at best match that and like any halfback you are only as good as your forwards.

Whilst the forwards set the platform when coming out of our end - the halves do have a large influence on the game. In order to give the team field position, they must kick well, something that Barrett has not done all that well this year. Barrett has not broken the defensive line much more than Fielden this year and certainly nowhere near the number of times that he did last year.

Because of our game plan; our props are gang tackled more often than not - if the halves supported a bit more then maybe they could offload a bit more - however I guess that is a criticism to leveled at the coach more than the players.

cpwigan wrote: Trent playing for Leeds or Saints would be fantastic. Fielden could play for any team and still be the robotic unnatural RL player he has always been.

I am sure he would - however they are doing pretty well without him anyway.

If you are to criticise Fielden for having a poor season; then there are many others (Barrett included) who must face the same criticism. Just because they could have played better in another team is completely irrelevant; they are paid to play for Wigan RL - it's how they play and the influence they have FOR US.

You cannot give someone a free pass just because they have played well previously or might play better in another team

cpwigan wrote:

butt monkey wrote:

cpwigan wrote: Pre or current Salary Cap is irrelevant. Well actually it is not. To not be delivering in a salary cap era is a cardinal sin. You cannot afford to pay somebody a large % of your cap and have them not deliver

This accusation can be levelled against half the players that have played in any year of SL at most clubs bar Stains and Bulls, latterly Leeds.

Not really BM. Casey McGuire/Adam Mogg, Adrian Morley/Gleeson/Briers, I could go on. Most of the best paid players at a club tend to be that clubs best players.

The easy one against and rather cruel would be Sculthorpe in recent seasons.

Casey McGuire has missed quite a few games for Catalans due to injury, Adrian Morley could hardly have been described "value for money" in his first in season at Wire. You yourself are Briers biggest critic - now you think "he is worth his money"?? :conf: Which is it?

Your dislike for Fielden can/will never change. But it does "cloud" your reasoned response and replies sometimes. You could fully argue that (despite being on lesser wages :doz: ) Andy Coley has done even less than Fielden the latter half of this season to justify selection, never mind what he is paid!!

As for Casey McGuire, his SL stats are not that impressive (although I myself have commented that these stats are pretty much useless numbers - however they are "fun to look at").

http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2008
Compared with a player recognised as "not hitting last year's heights" Trent Barrett.

McGuire played 5 less games, look at try assists, carries, metres made, then say McGuire has justifies his "star" wages to the extent you claim.

Ps, I can continue to compare all these "star" backs (past and present) against the performances of prop forward Stuart Fielden all day - but is it a fair comparison, ask yourself that?

butt monkey wrote:As for Casey McGuire, his SL stats are not that impressive (although I myself have commented that these stats are pretty much useless numbers - however they are "fun to look at").

http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2008
Compared with a player recognised as "not hitting last year's heights" Trent Barrett.

McGuire played 5 less games, look at try assists, carries, metres made, then say McGuire has justifies his "star" wages to the extent you claim.

Ps, I can continue to compare all these "star" backs (past and present) against the performances of prop forward Stuart Fielden all day - but is it a fair comparison, ask yourself that?

You're still missing the point, BM.
If you ranked a team's players according to (estimated) salary, and again according to their performance, the two lists should look roughly similar.
With us, that is far less the case than it is for any of the top teams.
In one way, that's good, because it shows how much value for money we get from the lower paid players such as Tomkins, Coley, Prescott, O'Carroll, McIlorum, but it also highlights the ones from whom we aren't getting the same value.