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Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:14 pm
by cpwigan
To be fair I cannot recall a team kicking 2 40-20s in one half of a RL game. Add that to the repeat possession you get when you score tries and any team facing that would struggle.

What worried me was the coach and the players never reacted to that. No plan B existed. In fact both coach and players made things worse for themselves.

Initial selection was wrong so it was up to the coach to act boldly and instigate some quick interchanges. It is no good saving interchanges until the game has gone. Feka should have been taken off, Fielden too and Hock / O'C played at prop to allow Hansen and Tomkins to play out wide because defensively the threat was out wide. Leeds had outfoxed Noble big time and he then failed to act to rectify it.

The coach, senior players should have then issued a call to be patient, lots of time left, work our way back into the game by not giving away possession, slow the game down as and when needed by kicking to touch. Wigan needed to dig in and absorb and reduce the pressure. Oner hs to question a coach who did not anticipate given their start to all gams this season, that Leeds have been hot early doors all season but lost it as the match progressed. The coach/players should have been aware of that.

Ultimately, Plan A was poor and what worrys me is that Noble thinks Plan A is good enough as long as the players apply it correctly. Well I am sorry Mr Noble, your Plan A sucks. We did not start the game badly. The first half was a continuation of the last 40 minutes v Leeds in the play off when we could not get out of our own half. So in essence that is 80 minutes of domination and results v Leeds are starting to replicate those v Saints who similarly dominate the crude Noble Plan A.

Sam Tomkins is doing very well ut the honest truth he is playing on totally the wrong side of the pitch. He is left sided. NZ made Tommy play right side and hooker to accomodate Benji on the left yet Noble puts a youngster in a position he is less suited to. Incidentally, Ainscough is a right not left winger.

The need to play plyers on the corect side would be less important if we actually played a game focussed upon breaking team down the middle before going wide. Instead from tackle 1 our half backs fan wide as very often do our second rowers. If players fan wide early and stand very flat then any opposition getting into their faces is going to make life incredibly hard for Wigan.

Even worse the reliance on Hock and Feka makes it easier for teams to target where the ball will go. Leeds have done a number of Hocky in the last 2 games v them. They compress their defence where he is and swarm at him in 2 and 3s. They even apply gamesmanship and really go to town on the ball which paid off last night and also ledge him heavily.

If you never change your approach then any team is going to know what you do and you become very predictable. We were playing a team that was vulnerable down their left side last night. Hall is a very good prospect. His defence is not his strength. He was carrying an injury. Senior was mising, Watkins is young and liable to make mistakes particularly when asked to play on the left when he is a right centre (look how many mistakes he made last night), Ali Lat does not want to defend, Burrow will defend but he cannot prevent offloads etc given his stature. We had that glaring weakness to attack and we never did instead we went down their right defence which is stronger.

Whatsmore if you kick down your right, Leeds left it makes Leeds play left to right which is the harder direction to play, Leeds players love running right to left and if you let them do that then by the last tackles, Rob Burrow is near the left touchline which is great for a left footed kicker.

Leeds threw a curve ball at us last night, we threw the same ball at them we always throw match after match.

Our basic sets that we use to exit our own half are no better than what schoolboys would use. Your own half, exit sets should be great sets because they are the ones you use the most. If Wigan want a playmaker hooker then you have to have a pack that plays as a pack in their own half and offers options, dummy runners and makes the opposition guess. You need Gaz Hock doing the hard yards because he is better at that than props like Fielden (He should be ashamed that it is so) Somebody mentioned last night that Lowe and Monie adapted to conditions / tams etc. Inded they did. Moving big teams laterally is not a brain wave by McLennan, we used to do it to Bradford when Kelvin, Hill, Hobbs played for them. Moreover, Monie had forards running far more intricate hard yard exit sets than Noble has and we are talking a decade later. How many time would Monie have 2 props running together any the outside one crying the ball would simply pop a short inside pass to his supporting teammate. What British SL coaches do now is say ys we want to exit our half and not make mistakes but we do that by scooting, by running one out, by keeping it simple.

Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:50 pm
by sheepdip
A very disappointing performance after the good win against Bradford. We never recovered from a poor start, not able to complete six tackles, poor decision making, and poor tackling, with Hock leaving his brain back in Wigan on this occasion. Why the hell is O'Loughlin is still captain!! We can also see he is not assertive enough, and does not have the interpersonal skills. We did however, battle on to the end and we took our two tries well. I am not prepared to give up on this current team and without Noble and a decent coach they good go along way, apart from some notable exceptions. As for Smith and his video pal, they were a disgrace. Once again Leeds get all the 50-50 calls, if I was cynical I would suggest there was a conspiracy. A lot of the basic rules of the game don't seem to apply to them. I was hoping one of our guys would have given Ablett a slap, the mouthy prick.

Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:04 pm
by mike binder
ancientnloyal wrote:I blame allan marsden.
me 3 is negative vibes can be heard all the way threw the jjb stadium,

Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:40 pm
by the_Warrior_in_Brum
Well gentlemen I must stick my oar in and say a few words.
I was pleasantly surprised last night I thought we were going down 50 or 60 points.
Leeds are an top of the world team, performance wise, at the moment. Wigan by most peoples standards have not had a good start to the season and by the 18th mans opinion have had a chronic start to the season. The game at Harlequins I think was our renaissance, we were all calling for the young blood to be included in the squad, for the promised open style of play to finally be employed. We have all our requests granted now but it will take more than a Bulls destruction to complete the overhaul. Lets get behind the team more be more vocal, previous threads mentioned the lack of vocal support.
Hock, is playing like a superstar, for us to play the expansive opportunistic game we crave, we need players to show some flair and individuality. If we are not prepared for the odd knock on or balls up, we should settle for the single minded approach that bored us so much round 1, 2 and 3.
I am looking forward to improvement and can see it happening.

Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:05 am
by DaveO
Morph wrote:Good to see Ainscough play well and come back strong after an indifferent start making a few errors, but redeeming himself in the later stages culminating in that great run and hand off on Donald showing strength and speed in abundance. All credit to him.
There was a comment on rlfans from a Leeds fan (I think) who said he thought Ainscough was one of a very few young players to come through in recent years who looked to have the physical attributes to play at SL level. He mentioned others may have the speed or whatever as a winger but not the physique to stand the pace. If opposition fans are saying that and we can see it then it looks as though CPW who has watched in in the reserves for some time was right having said the same thing for ages.

I hope Noble doesn't use the mistake as an excuse to drop him next week.

Dave

Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:11 am
by DaveO
the_Warrior_in_ Brum wrote:Well gentlemen I must stick my oar in and say a few words.
I was pleasantly surprised last night I thought we were going down 50 or 60 points.
Never thought I'd see the day when the magnitude of our loss was considered a positive.
Leeds are an top of the world team, performance wise, at the moment. Wigan by most peoples standards have not had a good start to the season and by the 18th mans opinion have had a chronic start to the season. The game at Harlequins I think was our renaissance, we were all calling for the young blood to be included in the squad, for the promised open style of play to finally be employed. We have all our requests granted now but it will take more than a Bulls destruction to complete the overhaul. Lets get behind the team more be more vocal, previous threads mentioned the lack of vocal support.
Hock, is playing like a superstar, for us to play the expansive opportunistic game we crave, we need players to show some flair and individuality. If we are not prepared for the odd knock on or balls up, we should settle for the single minded approach that bored us so much round 1, 2 and 3.
I am looking forward to improvement and can see it happening.
It's not about open play or Hock trying to win the game single handed. It's about the fact the team had no answer to a Leeds team missing three first team players of quality. They simply could not cope. We are so far behind it's untrue and unless there are some more radical changes other than Noble doing as we want (i.e.play the likes of S Tomkins) then I don't see us coming off any better v Leeds the next time we play them. If that is correct then that won't be improvement.

Dave

Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:39 pm
by gpartin
Leeds were fantastic and blitzed us early on... we were punished for good defence with the 40-20's, had we given them a few more yards each set of 6 the result could have been different, but the speed Leeds were spreading the ball out wide was too much for most defences and we were stretched out wide a number of times.

Hock had a mare but I have been impressed with him more than most this season. I think the criticism of Bailey is unfair and I rarely noticed Lockers but the stats will probably show him as top tackler. Other than that I thought Wigan's attitude was good and if we had kept hold of possession we'd have been in with a fighting chance against a very strong Leeds team. The first Leeds try in the 2nd half was against the run of played and killed us off but stupid mistakes allowed it to happen.

After a good game last week, Piggy was back to basic passing from dummy half every time and nothing much else, just as I thought he would, lazy git.

Lots of positives including, as previously mentioned, the fact that Leeds could easily have run away with it and put 50+ on us.

Re: Match Reaction: Leeds 34 - Wigan 10

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:02 pm
by MrDave
I think one of the major reasons Leeds destroyed Wigan on friday and why Leeds are one of the best teams in Super League is this:

Leeds Rhinos
Smith, Donald, Gibson, Watkins, Hall, McGuire, Burrow, Leuluai, Jones-Buchanan, Bailey, Ablett, Kirke, Sinfield

Burgess, Lauitiiti, Peacock, Webb

Wigan Warriors
Richards, Roberts, Bailey, Carmont, Ainscough, S. Tomkins, Leuluai, Fielden, Riddell, Paleaaesina, Hock, J. Tomkins, O'Loughlin.

Coley, Hansen, McIlorum, O'Carroll.

Just look at the difference between the number of British players in the team and if that wasn't bad enough look at the number of players from academy's

I think it says it all. In three years time Leeds will not have a single overseas player in their squad.