Hock approached by Canbera?????

[cpwigan]

Ask Mick Hogan is Hock a world class attacking player or umpteen RESPECTED RL pundits.

Sam Burgess loses the ball too. Now let me think rather than sticking the ball up his jumper he also tries to create something.

Who should people take notice of respected RL figures or Medlocke?

[DaveO]

Nobody has ever been rewarded for testing positive for drugs. 2 years of his career lost and approx 1/4 million pounds is a big loss to any RL player. The contract refelects the age of the player and the demand for that player. It seems that umpteen RL clubs rate the player far higher than you (thankfully).

A five year contract is a privilege awarded to few players and anyone who thinks awarding a five year deal to someone coming back off a drugs back won't be called into question is living in cloud cuckoo land.

It's also naive to think whatever he lost due to his ban has any baring on how people will perceive a five year deal either.

You might like it to be different but it won't be and a five year deal will bring with it pressure to deliver.

I think you need to wake up to both these things and if you want Hock to do well might just consider there might be some merit in the 1 year plus options idea rather than a straight five year contract. If he is as loyal to Wigan as you claim then there would be no need to go the whole hog with a five year deal.

It is also not about how I rate the player as a player. In fact that has nothing to do with anything posted previously. My point is all to do with how all this will be perceived by others and what pressure that will bring on him.

As to your other point about the Internet you surely can't think I meant malicious rumours would be the kind of thing that would make things difficult for him? Liable is just no tolerated on this message board.

What I meant as I am sure you know is the usual "he's no good/not worth the shirt" type of opinions that get hurled at many players. If less than 50 posters a minority of whom may not be a fan of his will cause him problems then he isn't in the right frame of mind to be a pro sportsman as they are always open to criticism and Hock has made a rod for his own back in the regard.

Dave

[Lil Feka's Dad]

Let's hope for his sake he never meets Paul Kimmage.

[medlocke]

You could not be more wrong Dave. Rumours / inuendo spread far more rapuidly via the internet and similar media. So somebody could and has (it was deleted) posted a malicious post re Gareth Hock. Ask Steven Gerrard how absurd rumours that could not be true can cause distress (this week).

Nobody has ever been rewarded for testing positive for drugs. 2 years of his career lost and approx 1/4 million pounds is a big loss to any RL player. The contract refelects the age of the player and the demand for that player. It seems that umpteen RL clubs rate the player far higher than you (thankfully).

Hock is a world class attacking talent. One of a handful of British players that justify that tag.

:slee:

Hock is not and has never been world class, Hock is a liability, for every good game he had he would have 3 bad ones, if you class passing the ball to noboby on a regular basis as well as knock ons and penaltys as world class then your a bigger numpton than what i originaly thought you where, Hock before his ban would have struggled to get a game in the NRL due to his inconsistencies, then we have all these people who can't wait to get Hock back because he will be awesome , he's been out of the game 2 year, it wouldn't surprise me if it takes him 6 months to get back to match fitness and get the right mindset, i have a feeling that his inclusion in 2011 is going to be a disruptive force on the team, i don't want him back but it looks like he's coming anyway, as i have said before he should be loaned out for the remainder of next season so he can find his feet and make the mistakes at the expence of another club :exc:

You said Lockers was shit under the Old regime now he is playing out of his skin, surely then Hock should be given the same opportunity under the new regime to make any serious judgement call on his ability as a player.

Hock is a top class player with the right coach who can knock the raw edges off he will be a real star.

Hock was IMO not looked after by the club other than Brian Foley and had no strong role model within the club as Noble was just too damn soft. Hock will benefit from Wane & MM as there is a atmosphere and discipline conducive to taking players and the squad to the next level

to be fair i haven't rated Lockers since his bad leg injury, however, last season he finally lived up to his potential IMO which was still under the old regime, so it has nothing to do with the miracle that is MM, makes me laugh really because Shaun Wane is there with MM but never seams to get any of the praise, back on track, i just think it would be better for the club if Hock went elsewhere for the 11 games that he will be back for in 2011, he will be rusty when it comes to passing, play the ball etc as well as his match fitness, it doesn't matter how much he has trained in the gym, if he hasn't played any games then it's going to take him a while to get back into the swing of things, other players have gone out on loan and it hasn't done them any harm, Mossop, Goulding, wouldn't you rather have him get up to speed at another club rather than the reserves, that way he is gaining that SL experience again without risking any losses for us in what could potentialy be another league leading, trophy chasing season.

[cpwigan]

The only pressure upon Gareth Hock is to play to the best of his ability AND to play how Madge wants him to play. Fans (Away in particular) shouting abuse comes with the position. The recent episode at Cas may shake things up a tad at all clubs re fans. I have never had the pleasure of playing in front of several thousand people but I certainly found you could hear what one man and his dog were shouting far more easily than a thousand + where often the shouting blends/merges to the point it is far less clear.

From the day he was banned Hock has been inundated with offers. If he was 31 years old + then the 5 year deal would be a 2 or 1 year deal. Increasingly top players are secured longer term during their peak years. Hock is no different but you seem intent on thinking it is. Clubs want Hock. Players that are wanted command better deals whomecver they are. On the plus nobody who has ever been banned has reoffended.

I think the internet is far more damaging and malicous than you imagine. A post can be on a site for a few hours and it starts a chain reaction long before it gets deleted. Gerrard was accused of having sex with his 16 year old sister in law initially be txt messaging but it got on the netv and snow balled. N.B the absurdity of this hoax was that Steven Gerrard does not have a 16 year old sister in law, he does not have ANY sister in law BUT the net saw the malicious hoax rumour spread like wildfire to the point the press are now having to post stories pointing out the absurdity of the hoax.

[cpwigan]

:slee:

Hock is not and has never been world class, Hock is a liability, for every good game he had he would have 3 bad ones, if you class passing the ball to noboby on a regular basis as well as knock ons and penaltys as world class then your a bigger numpton than what i originaly thought you where, Hock before his ban would have struggled to get a game in the NRL due to his inconsistencies, then we have all these people who can't wait to get Hock back because he will be awesome , he's been out of the game 2 year, it wouldn't surprise me if it takes him 6 months to get back to match fitness and get the right mindset, i have a feeling that his inclusion in 2011 is going to be a disruptive force on the team, i don't want him back but it looks like he's coming anyway, as i have said before he should be loaned out for the remainder of next season so he can find his feet and make the mistakes at the expence of another club :exc:

You said Lockers was shit under the Old regime now he is playing out of his skin, surely then Hock should be given the same opportunity under the new regime to make any serious judgement call on his ability as a player.

Hock is a top class player with the right coach who can knock the raw edges off he will be a real star.

Hock was IMO not looked after by the club other than Brian Foley and had no strong role model within the club as Noble was just too damn soft. Hock will benefit from Wane & MM as there is a atmosphere and discipline conducive to taking players and the squad to the next level

to be fair i haven't rated Lockers since his bad leg injury, however, last season he finally lived up to his potential IMO which was still under the old regime, so it has nothing to do with the miracle that is MM, makes me laugh really because Shaun Wane is there with MM but never seams to get any of the praise, back on track, i just think it would be better for the club if Hock went elsewhere for the 11 games that he will be back for in 2011, he will be rusty when it comes to passing, play the ball etc as well as his match fitness, it doesn't matter how much he has trained in the gym, if he hasn't played any games then it's going to take him a while to get back into the swing of things, other players have gone out on loan and it hasn't done them any harm, Mossop, Goulding, wouldn't you rather have him get up to speed at another club rather than the reserves, that way he is gaining that SL experience again without risking any losses for us in what could potentialy be another league leading, trophy chasing season.

Both Wane and Bitcom have been praised by many posters. Wane was here under Noble and struggled to make the difference he wanted to. Madge is a huge factor. The key factor.

On the basis of what you are saying any RU convert should be sent out on loan given what you say about a player who has been playing this sport since he was a toddler. Never mind we can always sign Mal Alker

[Lil Feka's Dad]

Let's hope for his sake he never meets Paul Kimmage.

The only pressure upon Gareth Hock is to play to the best of his ability AND to play how Madge wants him to play. Fans (Away in particular) shouting abuse comes with the position. The recent episode at Cas may shake things up a tad at all clubs re fans. I have never had the pleasure of playing in front of several thousand people but I certainly found you could hear what one man and his dog were shouting far more easily than a thousand + where often the shouting blends/merges to the point it is far less clear.

From the day he was banned Hock has been inundated with offers. If he was 31 years old + then the 5 year deal would be a 2 or 1 year deal. Increasingly top players are secured longer term during their peak years. Hock is no different but you seem intent on thinking it is. Clubs want Hock. Players that are wanted command better deals whomecver they are. On the plus nobody who has ever been banned has reoffended.

Eh, where did I say that?

[cpwigan]

Lil Feka Apologies I quoted the wrong post

[Lil Feka's Dad]

Lil Feka Apologies I quoted the wrong post

No problem - but I was seriously confused there for a while. I almost considered sobering up!

[gpartin]

Really looking forward to getting Gaz back with us I just fear that people will do everything they can to make things difficult for him. i really hope however that it won't be on this site.

How can people on this site make things difficult for him? There must be less than 50 regular posters.

The people who will do that are those who go to games and mostly opposing fans who will give him a load of stick for what he did. He can hardly expect otherwise.

He will be under the microscope both for potential re-offending and actually how he plays. If he comes back on a five year deal whether people like it or not that will raise eyebrows and brings with it pressure to deliver. Not many players who have been squeaky clean get five year deals and if for any reason he doesn't justify it on the field it won't be long before the wisdom of that would be called into question. I'd rather he got a one year deal with options for future years as that takes the pressure off and shows he has not been rewarded for drug use.

The danger is he might try too hard. He has IMO been guilty of that in the past and whether he can develop into an intelligent RL player as opposed to a raw talent remains to be seen.

Dave

As CP says and his reasons for it you are totally wrong on the first part. It only takes one post with a rumour or accusation and it can spread like wildfire. Your point about regular posters is totally irrelevant. On the subject of the 5 year contract I'm sure there will be conditions attached to it that are far stricter than on the contracts of other players and with the coaching staff we've got in place he's hardly likely to be able to take the p**s in training, during matches and even in his private life and get away with it. I think the club needs commending for the way they have given Gaz as much as an incentive as possible not only to get himself clean but also to be able to continue his career. I'm sure some people would have been happy if he'd been ignored by everyone at the club, disowned by his mates and banned from every gym in town. I'm sure Gaz knows he's been stupid, he's had plenty of time to think about it. I know on a thread about Gleeson Dave questioned why people would want to get Hock back but let Gleeson go and suggested it was hypocritical. I'd have agreed with this if Glees had come to Wigan without the reputation he had and if he was a first offender but he had an appalling track record to the point that Tony Smith couldn't wait to get rid of him. He, like Hock most probably will when he returns to the club, will have had it made clear to him what kind of behaviour would be expected of him more than other players with his reputation in mind. Although drugs are illegal and drinking isn't the clubs major concern should be around how player performance is affected and the influence a players behaviour can have on others, coaches in the past have tried and failed to change the behaviour of certain players, Paul Cooke being a recent example. All these players have one thing in common and that is the fact they have been given chances to prove their doubters wrong. Please allow Hock this chance but by all means reserve the right to say 'I told you so'.