Such a missed opportunity

[ancientnloyal]

Doesn't happen for cyclists

Boardman > Quealey > Wiggins/Hoy/Staff/Cavendish et al

Has any won the Tour De France?

I rest my case :exc:

weak effort. Green Jersey in the Giro, Vuelta and Tour de France, 20 stage wins, world champion, 2 dozen gold medals between them... And Wiggins would have won if he stayed on his bike in 2010

[cpwigan]

Has any won the Tour De France?

I rest my case :exc:

weak effort. Green Jersey in the Giro, Vuelta and Tour de France, 20 stage wins, world champion, 2 dozen gold medals between them... And Wiggins would have won if he stayed on his bike in 2010

Not really A&L, I put as much effort into the reply as the post deserved. Ultimately, the comparison of individual sportsmen/women and teamsports is pointless. Britain has regularly produced great individuals across a host of sports BUT ask Brits to achieve as teams and our record is horrid. The Rah Rah boys / the current cricket team are the last to achieve after long periods of failure but Football? Truly global 66 RL? Some would say 70 but IMO 58-62 was the era we dominated the world.

Incidentally, I stand by my criticism of British cyclists. Minority sport and yet the biggest event, no Brit wins it. I do not buy into the joke vests / party piece trivialities. As a lay person with zero interest in cycling the overall yellow jersey winner is the achievement. Green? Spotty? Sprinters who cannot do the rest or pull out are meaningless to me.

Mentally, we are a weak sporting nation. We are probably a weak nation mentally full stop.

[ancientnloyal]

You cannot judge the whole cycling realm on the Tour de France maillot jaune. We have a World roadrace champion newly crowned and multiple gold medalists the last of which Hoy won an Open only last week.

The mentality of Wiggins (a Wigan fan) for example is of 101% commitment. His life is now focued on the 2012 yellow because when he somehow finished 4th in 2009 he said he didn't get how he finished 4th let alone what is actually needed to finish higher... in previous years he was a team time trialist from a track background and now has transformed to a contender. His training, his life, his meals are focused on 120 mile a day racing only bareable with a (mainly) british team around him working together to get him alone into the yellow. On other stages they will work to get Cavendish in green and a stage win. Their team principle is the head of British Cycling which up until 1 or 2 years ago had been unrivalled for a decade and the likes of Hoy still winning gold and the youngster Kenny the bridesmaid shows a natural progression from track to road... boardman had some success on timetrial stages... David Millar took it a step further staying longer in yellow and now Wiggins eventually followed suit to be a genuine GC contender.

Contador won every Grand Tour he entered on his own up until this year's TdF where injury stopped him. The emergence of Team SKY (britain) this year and a follow up in the Vuelta (2nd and third) just proves the mentality of the athletes. Minority sport or not there are exceptions.

[cpwigan]

You cannot judge the whole cycling realm on the Tour de France maillot jaune. We have a World roadrace champion newly crowned and multiple gold medalists the last of which Hoy won an Open only last week.

The mentality of Wiggins (a Wigan fan) for example is of 101% commitment. His life is now focued on the 2012 yellow because when he somehow finished 4th in 2009 he said he didn't get how he finished 4th let alone what is actually needed to finish higher... in previous years he was a team time trialist from a track background and now has transformed to a contender. His training, his life, his meals are focused on 120 mile a day racing only bareable with a (mainly) british team around him working together to get him alone into the yellow. On other stages they will work to get Cavendish in green and a stage win. Their team principle is the head of British Cycling which up until 1 or 2 years ago had been unrivalled for a decade and the likes of Hoy still winning gold and the youngster Kenny the bridesmaid shows a natural progression from track to road... boardman had some success on timetrial stages... David Millar took it a step further staying longer in yellow and now Wiggins eventually followed suit to be a genuine GC contender.

Contador won every Grand Tour he entered on his own up until this year's TdF where injury stopped him. The emergence of Team SKY (britain) this year and a follow up in the Vuelta (2nd and third) just proves the mentality of the athletes. Minority sport or not there are exceptions.

Of course anomalies exist BUT we are still talking individual sport here (yes I know they have teams BUT the guy pushing the pedals round is on his own) and one that is not embraced by all nations (not that, this is unique or different to most sports).

[ancientnloyal]

I do agree however that as a nation we lack that edge that boring Germany have in football for example. Their players are no better man for man than us but they always seem to get very far/win tournaments. Cricket currently is the exception as we have a 'squad' who are still quite young and growing together. Right place at the right time. Like St Helens for the last decade to some extent. Our problem is a mix between media pressures, personal greeEngland to win the world cup? we've had the players to do it and will in the future but will we do it? probably not in my lifetime I fear. Rugby Union? probably yes again once they've drained league... league to win the world cup? No. It's like Barcelona (Australia) versus Bury (us) two different games being played... a professionally run outfit and a kick about club unless we get the investment which isnt going to happen.

I believe that in this country in particular the media rule. Rooney is happy to be in OK! magazine for stamping spitting or swearing on telly... he'll get £100,000 for the priviledge. Ashley Cole will happily shag a popstar and shoot an academy player... he's just been offered £200,000 a week to play 3 time zones away from Moscow. He doesn't care. Tuilagi jumping off a ferry and Yawnion guys partying down under won't mind... they'll still be called up and fill the pages before the football every sunday morning.

At least the minority sports actaully don't care about fame or glamour. Cavendish a pay cut to move to SKY JUST so he can have a chance at Olympic Gold... he's arrogant yes, sponsorship yes... model girlfriend yes. in the papers? no.

Just hope our Real Tennis guys are firing well soon.

[Sutty]

I disagree CP, there's a difference between being at the pinnacle of your own personal capabilities and winning the toughest bike race in the world.

Your moment would suggest that anyone, with the right training, could beat Usain Bolt.
There's more to it than that, bio mechanics have a large part to play too

Not sure what your point is Sutty

It was clear in my head, what I meant when I was typing it. Reading it back now, it's not really clear lol

I'm full of a cold and don't want to get in to a debate at the moment, maybe when I feel better

[TonyH]

To be honest I can see where CP is coming from. England won the Ashes in 2005, went out partying thought they were the big I am and thenb got humped 5-0 in Australia the year after. We beat the Aussies in Sydney in 2006 but could not rise to the challenge the week after, basically good performances come in dribs and drabs mostly for this nation and it's because the Media big them up to be superstars after one big performance.

However, AnL has a good point too on not only the cyclists but look at the Rowing team when it was headed by Redgrave and Pinsent. These sorts of sports do not get much exposure though if there is not much expectation on the performances of the athletes participating.

[ancientnloyal]

Rowing an excellent example, however I can see how individualistic targets far out-weigh targets if you're in a team sport. So full circle the thread makes sense.

Although cycling and rowing covers both ends of the spectrum for individual riders/rowers into team events their goal is achievable by their own personal contribution. Team sport though you can easily tag along whilst your team mates get you through (Richie Mathers)

[TonyH]

[quote="ancientnloyal"]Rowing an excellent example, however I can see how individualistic targets far out-weigh targets if you're in a team sport. So full circle the thread makes sense.

Although cycling and rowing covers both ends of the spectrum for individual riders/rowers into team events their goal is achievable by their own personal contribution. Team sport though you can easily tag along whilst your team mates get you through (Richie Mathers)[/quote]

Or dare I say it.....Gareth Thomas.

[TSB]

All this talk about being tired after the challenge cup win is total rubbish. Leeds were in the Challaenge cup final they got to the grand final after playing Warrington of which was a classic game. Saints were just better than us on the day. Get over it. We will be back.