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TonyH wrote:If people want to pay money to spend 80 minutes complaining about what they are watching then how can they call themselves 'supporters'? These 'supporters' were quick to shout for Wanes head last week but I ask you were we never beaten by Huddersfield under Maguire? I think you'll find that we were.

Incidentally the victory we had over Leeds on Saturday was a bigger winning margin over Leeds than Maguire ever had as Coach, does this make Wane a better coach than Maguire? No it does not.

People talk about rights etc. and just because they pay money to watch people work they think they have a right to abuse or 'slag' them off. I see people making references to actors etc. Would you pay a mechanic to fix your car and hurl abuse at him whilst he was putting a new exhaust pipe on because you didn't think he was doing it right?

Really how many of us are qualified to dissect and critisize a super league players game?

I'm not qualified to dissect, but I will. I dissect because I'm massively interested in the sport, enjoy being an "expert-in-the-stands", and love Wigan. The difference is this...I'd be an idiot if I expected a player or coach to pay any attention to my opinion, because I'm not actually qualified to know what I'm talking about. That doesn't stop me enjoying myself by having, sharing and discussing an opinion, critical or otherwise. What do you want, anyone who's not a top-level coach to sit down and shut up if they don't like what they see?

We can say what we want (provided its printable) for precisely the reason that no sensible player or coach should pay any notice to us!

As for 'how can you call yourself a supporter?' - remember that ultimately we support Wigan, not any individuals. So whether the criticism is right, wrong, justified or not (and its often not) I see no logical conflict with someone criticising players but still being a loyal Wigan fan.

JonNichols wrote:

TonyH wrote:If people want to pay money to spend 80 minutes complaining about what they are watching then how can they call themselves 'supporters'? These 'supporters' were quick to shout for Wanes head last week but I ask you were we never beaten by Huddersfield under Maguire? I think you'll find that we were.

Incidentally the victory we had over Leeds on Saturday was a bigger winning margin over Leeds than Maguire ever had as Coach, does this make Wane a better coach than Maguire? No it does not.

People talk about rights etc. and just because they pay money to watch people work they think they have a right to abuse or 'slag' them off. I see people making references to actors etc. Would you pay a mechanic to fix your car and hurl abuse at him whilst he was putting a new exhaust pipe on because you didn't think he was doing it right?

Really how many of us are qualified to dissect and critisize a super league players game?

I'm not qualified to dissect, but I will. I dissect because I'm massively interested in the sport, enjoy being an "expert-in-the-stands", and love Wigan. The difference is this...I'd be an idiot if I expected a player or coach to pay any attention to my opinion, because I'm not actually qualified to know what I'm talking about. That doesn't stop me enjoying myself by having, sharing and discussing an opinion, critical or otherwise. What do you want, anyone who's not a top-level coach to sit down and shut up if they don't like what they see?

We can say what we want (provided its printable) for precisely the reason that no sensible player or coach should pay any notice to us!

As for 'how can you call yourself a supporter?' - remember that ultimately we support Wigan, not any individuals. So whether the criticism is right, wrong, justified or not (and its often not) I see no logical conflict with someone criticising players but still being a loyal Wigan fan.

First of Jon might I say welcome to the Forum, always nice to see new people posting, especially posting sensible comments.

To your point about dissecting the game as I spoke about, if it's constructive critiscism with valid reasons or points then I am all for it, but it is the complete fickleness of certain fans and supporters that bemuses me, if someone has a bad game then these supporters claim that they're not fit to play ever again - or words to that extent.

Huddersfield destroyed Widnes yesterday and whilst people may say that Widnes are the new boys etc. they have some experienced players like Clarke and Moore BUT Huddersfield were just far too good and I believe that was the case when we played against them last week, we were out played and out coached but that said I would never call for Shaun Wanes head or Darrell Gouldings place in the team 80 minutes in to the new season much like some fans have done.

It also interests me how many people have defended themselves with regards to my original post but to be fair I myself could sit and talk about Rugby League, Wigan Warriors, fitness training, diet/nutrition etc. for hours on end because I am that in to it, I play the game, I live the game to be honest and the people who make comments like 'Wane is not up to the job' are often the ones who just click on to the Websites from time to time and do not know what it is they are talking about.

I should probably point out as well that the 'majority' of the posters on here come up with valid points and I am always eager to see what people think about everything Wigan and RL in general. Some of the best RL ideas and Wigan chats I've had happen on here instead of in the pub (Not that I'm in the pub too often) and I must admit I do enjoy a good RL debate/discussion.

I think the truth is that most Wigan fans support their team through good and bad, win or lose.
However, what isn't acceptable is a lack of professionalism, complacency, not being mentally "up for it", not respecting the opposition. These opinions were expressed by Wigan following the Giants game, therefore I can't see anything wrong with fans expressing their frustration.
Fail to Prepare - Prepare to Fail!
Wigan obviously learned from that loss and put in a much improved performance on Saturday.
Let's not forget this is a forum, not a place to claim the moral high ground.

Top and bottom of this for me is that, last week, a seriously understrength Huddersfield team beat a strong Wigan side.
Wane said he "hadn't seen it coming.".
That statement alone entitles fans to complain. His job is to see it coming, and the inference was that he and the players thought it would be easy, and were caught napping.
On Sunday, the side played brilliantly, 90% completion in the second half asccording to the Shaun Wane video on the club site, anyone who complained abot the game on Saturday would have to look a long way to find something to complain about, but no doubt, some of the will still do just that. It's just the way some people are.

This thread is way off mark. Forums are for passing opinions and that is what we are all entitled to do. As long as there is no abuse then everyone is entitled to criticise or praise the players. Last week we were poor,this week excellent.I admit that Mcilorum is not my favourite player but this week he was in my opinion mom.I will continue to criticise if i feel it is warranted and praise when it is earned,and i am sure i will not be the only one.

bazward76 wrote: After the winter break fans look forward to the start of the season [when they are probably at their most critical as expectations are high] and when the players come out and put in a way below par performance in the first game against a depleted Giants team then I think fans have a right to voice they're concerns and opinions.

Exactly. The performance against Hudds was dire.

If the team plays well they get the plaudits. If they don't they get the criticism. It's pretty simple really.

DaveO wrote:

bazward76 wrote: After the winter break fans look forward to the start of the season [when they are probably at their most critical as expectations are high] and when the players come out and put in a way below par performance in the first game against a depleted Giants team then I think fans have a right to voice they're concerns and opinions.

Exactly. The performance against Hudds was dire.

If the team plays well they get the plaudits. If they don't they get the criticism. It's pretty simple really.

Yes - that part is simple, but what about people who call for the Coaches head etc?

I would have loved to have seen the reaction on here had we lost to Leeds

I think we as fans have such high standards for this club for the obvious reason that we are Wigan RLFC. Those of us who were around in the Glory Days and the 50s/60s will know what things this club has achieved and whatever performances we do or what trophies we win it'll always be compared to those era's. It's like we have to be the best, always like it's a given right - which it is in some ways.

We expect Wigan to be the best and anyone who pulls on a Wigan jersey to give their all. I know when I will be 80 years old I will still probably compare the wingers to Offiah or the loose forward to Hanley and perhaps any one of those great team's because that's just my view, which is sad in a way.

I think many fans feel that Huddersfield is a second rate club like Hull KR, Salford and the like and why should we be outplayed by them? What have they done in 20 years? When the truth is that they are a quality and balanced side no matter how many fans they have or the lack of trophies it's a stereotype in many ways. Remember when we lost to them a few days before a Fans Forum that meeting could have lasted all night due to the blood pressure

ancientnloyal wrote:I think we as fans have such high standards for this club for the obvious reason that we are Wigan RLFC. Those of us who were around in the Glory Days and the 50s/60s will know what things this club has achieved and whatever performances we do or what trophies we win it'll always be compared to those era's. It's like we have to be the best, always like it's a given right - which it is in some ways.

We expect Wigan to be the best and anyone who pulls on a Wigan jersey to give their all. I know when I will be 80 years old I will still probably compare the wingers to Offiah or the loose forward to Hanley and perhaps any one of those great team's because that's just my view, which is sad in a way.

I think many fans feel that Huddersfield is a second rate club like Hull KR, Salford and the like and why should we be outplayed by them? What have they done in 20 years? When the truth is that they are a quality and balanced side no matter how many fans they have or the lack of trophies it's a stereotype in many ways. Remember when we lost to them a few days before a Fans Forum that meeting could have lasted all night due to the blood pressure

Exactly, and lets not forget where the likes of Brown and Robinson made their names.....

Another problem maybe... who has the blinkered views that those players as 'Wigan Rejects' and why should they be running us ragged when in fact they've both worked hard at 'lower clubs' to establish themselves in their own right?
How many times has Giraffe been the but of many jokes on here?