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bikerharry wrote:

cpwigan wrote: It beggars belief that a player who by his own admission was not particularly talented but worked hard can be described as the all time greatest

Oh and this doesn't make him a bad player, just a humble person, something you could maybe learn from. There are more than a few "great players" across a range of sports who would say the same about themselves.

No thankyou more than happy with myself He was telling the truth. Rads was no great, a trier yes, dedicated yes, brave in buckets (Murrayfield) yes BUT minimal skill. He had limited evasion skills and was not express pace.

Not even in the top 5 all time. Sadly the 2nd/3rd greatest full back to play for Wigan IMO is missing; Punchy Griffiths. Sullivan is 1 Punchy or Ryan are 2 / 3. Punchy did it for Wigan, then went to Aus and was great there too.

It is amusing that people vote for Rads and Hampo. Hampo was the world best at catching bombs, other than that his skill deficiences turned him into a self harmer.

cpwigan wrote:

bikerharry wrote:

cpwigan wrote: On your basis such polls are completely pointless.

bikerharry wrote:The argument of greatest player of all time in any position is fun to do and always prompts some interesting opinions, however it is by nature a moot point.

Kind of the point I was making? Fun to do, but not comparable due to the length of time between players careers. You can read all you like, but reading about a player will not emote the same passion as watching someone play, so their vote will always be limited to players they have watched and can remember.

cpwigan wrote: If Kris Radlinski is voted the greatest fullback to ever play for Wigan it brings shame on the people who use this forum

Why, because people don't agree with you so that makes it shamefull? How arogant is that?

No arrogance just clear cut evidence that the majority of posters are clueless. I could not care if they agree / disagree with me. Sullivan is obviously the greatest full back to have ever played for Wigan. His contribution DWARFS Rads and without being disrespectful Rads is St Pats in comparison to Jim Sullivan.

If people are clueless about their own club then I am embarassed for them.

On what basis do you decide the vast majority of posters are clueless? What clear cut evidence? The fact they don't agree with your opinion? Just a little egotistical don't you think? And you have still failed to address the point I made, that their careers are uncomparable due to the length of time between them, you just keep reasserting your opinion. Radlinski was a great fullback, were there better, maybe, was he the best possibly not, but as I said, impossible to compare objectively. In my opinion, Radlinski is the greatest wigan fullback I have seen play, if you don't like that or diasagree, that's your perogotive, but to mock others because their opinions differ is a little infantile.

trotski_tgwu wrote:

bikerharry wrote:

cpwigan wrote: It beggars belief that a player who by his own admission was not particularly talented but worked hard can be described as the all time greatest

Oh and this doesn't make him a bad player, just a humble person, something you could maybe learn from. There are more than a few "great players" across a range of sports who would say the same about themselves.

Oooow my sides are splitting with laughter at someone dareing to take CP Wigan on in a battle of wits, At last some excitment and debate on here rather than all the doom and gloom and the I am right patter merchants we have on here.

Gotten to the stage where it seems only certain peoples opinions are the right opinion and the rest of us are just mere plebs who know nothing about WRL and therefor should not dain to comment, imo that is not a comment

I don't post on here much, but I do like to read what others have to say, so pop in quite a bit, as the day you stop learning is the day you die. I don't however like to be told what to think.

Good on you BH

cherry.pie wrote:Radlinski is a club legend because of his consistency and often heroic defending; Sullivan is a rugby league legend and one of the best British players every to play the game.

I don't see how there's even a comparison. It's like comparing Billy Boston with Pat Richards.

My point is you can't compare any player from 50 years apart, the game was too different then to how it is now.

Harry,

The game has always changed, why should we judge players by how the game is played today. However, if we take your argument then Sulivan is a perfect example of a player / coach who not only moved with the time / he led RL. He was a master tactician as a player and a coach. He even made Saints great On that basis I his ability to dominate the world's leading RL nation and lead the entire sport then he is in a different league to any other FB to ever play for Wigan, perhaps RL and would be great in any era.

You will get idiots saying oh just because CPW says it is so we are all clueless. NO, far better people with much more expertise thanourselves say so. I would expect any fan to know a little about the history of their own club / its players to then make informed choices.

The RFL not CPW inducted Sully as an original RFL Hall og Famer. Their are only 17 across RL, Ellery, Billy B and Eric Ashton are the only other Wiganers. So the experts help you make informed educated choices.

Everybody here has google

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Sullivan

Jim Sullivan (2 December 1903 — September 1977)[1] was a Welsh rugby league footballer and coach. A Fullback and prodigious goal kicker, he scored 6,022 points in a career that spanned 25 years. Several years after his death he was still the player with the most appearances and most goals for the Wales national rugby league team. He also represented Wales in baseball (British/Welsh).[2]

Sullivan joined Wigan in June 1921 from Cardiff Rugby Union Club as a 17-year-old.[3] On 14 February 1925, he landed 22 goals against amateurs Flimby & Fothergill in the Rugby League Challenge Cup, which is still a record.[4] He toured with the Great Britain Lions three times (1924, 1928 and 1932) and was captain on the final occasion. He top-scored on all three tours. He refused what would have been a record fourth trip, in 1936, for personal reasons.

For twenty years, he dominated at Fullback, representing Great Britain (25 times), Wales (26), England (3), Other Nations (6), Glamorgan (1) and Glamorgan & Monmouthshire (12). Due to the Second World War, his last season was 1939/40, although he played several times when peace resumed, the last for Batley in February 1946.

When he removed his Wigan jersey for the final time, he had made 774 appearances and amassed ... hire Cups.

As a player-coach from 1932, Sullivan continued managing Wigan after retiring as a player, creating one of the club's greatest sides by winning a record 5 Championships and 2 Challenge Cups. In 1952 he joined St Helens RLFC, overseeing their rise to power. He later returned to Wigan as coach in 1961, but left months later due to ill health.

Jim Sullivan died in Wigan in 1977, aged 73. He was one of the inaugural inductees of the British Rugby League Hall of Fame in October 1988. He is also an inductee of the Wigan Hall of Fame.

How much effort would that take to find and understand. We are talking about a player who led World RL, dominate world RL as a player and as a coach. Worse he then made Saints great. As a player / coach he was a world leader over 3 / 4 decades and people think he would not be able to play today

Wigan legends Andy Gregory and Jim Sullivan added to longlist of candidates for Wembley statue

No Kris Rads how odd

http://www.rugbyrelics.com/SW/sports/rl/sullivan.htm

In the words of that doyen of the rugby league press, Eddie Waring (NOT CPW), he was the "the greatest Welshman ever to be signed". In the record books of Rugby League, he certainly ranks as the greatest goal kicker ever to have donned a Rugby League shirt. His superlative goal kicking was the feature of his game for which he is most famous. 'Sully' as he was affectionately known was a true professional as a player and this trait shone through in his post-playing days as an inspirational coach.

I would be ashamed to call myself a fan if I ignored Sully. It is IMO embarassing for this site and those that chose to. EXPERTS / RL Greats not CPW did not act so clueless and ignorant. Yet, a forum thinks it can and is quite happy to do so.

Many here will not have seen Billy B or Ellery play does that mean they cannot vote for them or that they would not have been great now

Can you imagine St George fans not voting for Reg Gasnier, Many not voting for Bob Fulton just because they had not see them and they were from a different era.

I have only ever really seen 3 of those full backs in action, Radlinski, Hampson and Lydon and as a result I have not voted as I dont really feel qualified to do so. If I did it would be for Sullivan, simply on what he did and achieved and from what others have told me. I certainly wouldnt vote for Radlinski, Hampson or Lydon as I think they all had faults and werent even anywhere near the best full backs internationally in their generation where as some of the older full backs where.

Lydon played all over the place and was never really a full back for that long and when he was he had his faults. Hampson for me again had his faults and his all round game wasnt half as good as people seem to remember and Steadman often got picked before him for GB. Indeed I think the whole catching, practicing on a trampoline etc gives people a rose tinted view of him because defensively as a full back he certainly wasnt that good and he was sometimes shocking one on one. Radlinski was solid with a solid all round game but I wouldnt say he was by all means exceptional, and a long way off the better Australian full backs of the time, and I would say that Tomkins even now has far more ability than Rads ever showed.

cpwigan wrote:

bikerharry wrote:

cpwigan wrote: It beggars belief that a player who by his own admission was not particularly talented but worked hard can be described as the all time greatest

Oh and this doesn't make him a bad player, just a humble person, something you could maybe learn from. There are more than a few "great players" across a range of sports who would say the same about themselves.

No thankyou more than happy with myself He was telling the truth. Rads was no great, a trier yes, dedicated yes, brave in buckets (Murrayfield) yes BUT minimal skill. He had limited evasion skills and was not express pace.

Not even in the top 5 all time. Sadly the 2nd/3rd greatest full back to play for Wigan IMO is missing; Punchy Griffiths. Sullivan is 1 Punchy or Ryan are 2 / 3. Punchy did it for Wigan, then went to Aus and was great there too.

It is amusing that people vote for Rads and Hampo. Hampo was the world best at catching bombs, other than that his skill deficiences turned him into a self harmer.

Here's a link for you CP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Radlinski

Not bad for someone who wasn't particularly talented

jobo wrote:

cpwigan wrote:

bikerharry wrote: Oh and this doesn't make him a bad player, just a humble person, something you could maybe learn from. There are more than a few "great players" across a range of sports who would say the same about themselves.

No thankyou more than happy with myself He was telling the truth. Rads was no great, a trier yes, dedicated yes, brave in buckets (Murrayfield) yes BUT minimal skill. He had limited evasion skills and was not express pace.

Not even in the top 5 all time. Sadly the 2nd/3rd greatest full back to play for Wigan IMO is missing; Punchy Griffiths. Sullivan is 1 Punchy or Ryan are 2 / 3. Punchy did it for Wigan, then went to Aus and was great there too.

It is amusing that people vote for Rads and Hampo. Hampo was the world best at catching bombs, other than that his skill deficiences turned him into a self harmer.

Here's a link for you CP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Radlinski

Not bad for someone who wasn't particularly talented

It is a fantastic achievement BUT that does not equate to being Wigan's best ever fullback. Not disrespecting Rads but he was not fit to lace the boots of Sullivan. Rads was vying with Wellens as the best in his era. Many think rightly or wrongly that Wellens was better. IMO, that tells you all you need to know.

If you read the link, Rads struggled to make the SL dream team, once? he only won a fraction of the trophies / awards of Sully and most came baby sitting on the wing of our all time teams when asked to make a stunning difference and lead Wigan to glory both Rads and Faz did not cut it whereas Sully captained / coached Wigan / GB / Saints to countless glory. There simply is no comparison but hey thats for others to live with.

Can you imagine France leaving Puig Albert out of their All Time XIII? Australia / Souths leaving Clive Churchill out? It saddens me that Aussies etc respect / recognse their past more than we Brits do.

Good debate which is what this is all about. Everyone has their rigt to this vote and it looks like Radlinski will win it so far.

I voted for Sullivan who IMO is greater than Boston for Wigan he is what Wigan is all about. Personally he has captured my imagination more than any other player for us.

But, the #1 jersey is nearly sorted out... 12 more to go. Hooker will be next, early April so will make a thread for your nominees. If you don't put a name down they wo't be put up for vote and to havetheir case for the #9 jersey (unless someone bleeding obvious is missed out)

With Sullivan or any past player when people talk about not seeing them play or they couldn't cope with today's rugby, surely it is all relative? At the time they were at the top of their game. If they were born more recently they would have adapted to the game of the time.

Vote for who you like it's a fans team to celebrate our 140 years of existance. Hey we may not even get Boston in the #2 jersey who knows. That's what votes are about however wrongly some may feel aggrieved that their chosen player will miss out (i am one of them so far)