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[/quote]thegimble posted:
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The only problem i can see is that he will not come back and coach the side this is more worrying in the long run. .
mrs_carney posted:
Thats a thing how will faz cope without his "erms" when hes talking
I read this and was equally surprised but there are two things about this from my side of the debate.DaiJones posted:
Most incredibly of all however, Diamond says he would play the Faz at fly half or inside centre. Now this is a real indictment of Unions's inferiority, Dave O, Ian, etc. if a 6ft 4, 17st plus prop forward (for that he was for much of 2004) can be considered to have the skills, pace, imagination and kicking game to boss a game in the pivotal positions in a Union back line then the thirteen a side game really is light years ahead.
I just think they are different games mate and evolving differently. Union found success with giant wingers when the likes of Tuigamala and latterly Joanna Lomu appeared. Maybe they see in Faz a player that can bring that power whilst retaining the skills to the number 10 shirt.DaiJones posted:
Most incredibly of all however, Diamond says he would play the Faz at fly half or inside centre. Now this is a real indictment of Unions's inferiority, Dave O, Ian, etc. if a 6ft 4, 17st plus prop forward (for that he was for much of 2004) can be considered to have the skills, pace, imagination and kicking game to boss a game in the pivotal positions in a Union back line then the thirteen a side game really is light years ahead.
So why did they come north then? They were giving up national adulation and leaving themselves open to a real slating. Scott Gibbs was banned from the clubhouse of his old club when he went to Saints!thegimble posted:
The top Welsh players from the 70's onwards were tachnical proffesionals. During the 70's all bar one (I believe JPR) wore adidas boots conicidence i feel not as we know now they were been illegally paid. There cushy jobs were as PA or Public Relations work for a couple of hours a week and were paid well and then off training for the rest.
As I have said calling players Judas is out of order but it wasn't fans who may have had a go at Union players moving to league but the Union establishment!We can not go and call Faz a Judas when lets be honest we all supported Offiah, Tuigamala and Quinell when they came. I bet supports of them in Union called them Judas when they moved.
If he was leaving at the end of 2006 fine. I have no problem with players taking advantage of the free market when their commitments to their clubs are fullfilled. In Farrel's case as I have said in other posts his position in the game is also something to consider. He is not an Offiah who was playing for Rosslyn-Park and spotted by an RL scout but the current GB captain and that makes his move more than a club issue.League players yes were paid better than Union in them days so are we not been hypocritical to say that Faz is a Judas for doing the same. We gave the above mentioned supporrt but some turn on him.
Why do you think this? There is no way it automatically follws that if Farrell leaves we will be able to replace him with a player of equal ability.One thing we are guranteed they will bring in a World Class player to replace him whether it is Williams, Sculthorpe or Morley.
For me the contractual situation is important. There are two different discussions here though. The first is how it relates to League taking Union players in the past and the second is the situation with Farrell who has two years of his to run now.Welski posted:I've heard others say this analogy isnt relevant but I think its at the heart of this debate. I don't really think the fans really care too much whether a player is contracted or not or what the relative pay scales are. I think the most important thing for supporters of the 'rival' codes is that they want to see those they consider the best players playing in their code/team. They see it as an affront that the 'enemy' has pinched one of theirs.DaveO posted:
Dai,
The analogy of League taking Welsh players doesn't hold water. They were amateurs and simply could not earn a living as a professional sportsman in RU despite the odd brown paper bag and cushy job.
They were not contracted to anyone.
I don't have a problem if he does this at the end of 2006.As you point out they couldn't earn a living in RU (although you ask any All Black from those days) and this was the motivating factor in switching to RL. I think that's a less noble reason for switching than the reasons players give now. If we accept that someone like Faz isnt going to earn a whole lot more in swithcing then one would have to think the resons are as assumed (ASSUMING HE ACTUALLY GOES!). Namely that he relishes a new challenge and a new and arguably wider stage on which to display his skills.
DaveO posted:I can see why you make these points Dave there certainly is a bias in the national press towards Union and it is (very) frustrating. However having been around union all my life (though never a forward!) I have never encounted that from any players or coaches. In fact quite the opposite. I dont know him but I wouldnt have thought the Sarries coach would have meant anything derogatory to RL in suggesting it was too late for Faz to adapt. There is a young forward called James Forrester on the fringe of the England squad, he is big,tall, very quick with amazing hands (would be a superb League player) he reminds me in a strange way of SBW...and given the state of England RU at the moment I'm amazed he isnt given a shot...the reason given is that despite playing in Union all his life he is not considered good enough at the grubby side of back row forward play. They must be doing something very mystical at the bottom of those pile ups that takes years to learn!DaiJones posted:
The other thing that was said about where he would play by the Saracens coach was that he was at 30 (he is 29 anyway) too old to learn how to be a Union forward. That is why they would play him at fly-half or inside centre. I thought this was typical of an RU man perpetuating the myth that Union is a far more technical game. It's different but it is not quantum physics. Should he go to Union Farrell is a dedicted pro and would learn the ropes quickly enough.
It is a comment such as that which to me demonstrates how superior some Union people think of themselves and their sport. The fact that they consider an athlete of Farrell's ability incapable of mastering their game is ridiculous.
I also have a sneaky suspicion that should Farrell turn down the move the press will be dominated with statements like "there was no position for him" or "at 29 he was too old" etc. Comments like that from Saracens just show they will spin it to the detriment of RL and it will be a PR disaster whatever happens.
Dave
I am involved with Chester RUFC under-11's and there is none there either but they are not the press or the RU establishment and I am sure there are some die-hard old school RU types around who hate RL with a passion.Welski posted:
I can see why you make these points Dave there certainly is a bias in the national press towards Union and it is (very) frustrating. However having been around union all my life (though never a forward!) I have never encounted that from any players or coaches.
I honestly don't know what the fuss is about with rucks and mauls. They aren't that "technical" at all.In fact quite the opposite. I dont know him but I wouldnt have thought the Sarries coach would have meant anything derogatory to RL in suggesting it was too late for Faz to adapt. There is a young forward called James Forrester on the fringe of the England squad, he is big,tall, very quick with amazing hands (would be a superb League player) he reminds me in a strange way of SBW...and given the state of England RU at the moment I'm amazed he isnt given a shot...the reason given is that despite playing in Union all his life he is not considered good enough at the grubby side of back row forward play. They must be doing something very mystical at the bottom of those pile ups that takes years to learn!