Have Wigan / RL fans developed a lazy season ticket holding culture?

[cpwigan]

I do think the psyche of British people is very important. If an event is perceived as hugely impportant and tickets are scarce then Brits clamour to attend for all sorts of 'silly' sporting events.

I know there are numerous reasons / excuses as to why fans no longer attend such RL event in huge numbers. I do think Monday night is now a big factor. Yet in the past, midweek fixtures AND multiple fixtures in a very short space of time were famously celebrated / acknowledged even heralded as mission impossibles etc. Those seasons make a mockery somewhat of cash flow / midweek arguments.

Put a fixture on in Wigan and you could always get a crowd; friendly fixtures, Wigan 7's, Wardonia/Locker Cup. Alliance fixtures were attended in greater numbers, a debut of a big name would see attendances bigger for reserve fixtures / alliance fixtures than we get for non season ticket events now. British Coal 9's; GB v PNG. Even Springfield Borough did ok, I went to several of their games. The Ken Gee Cup was once a much bigger event too.

Does football have a similar problem? Without investigating the League Cup struggles more now, possibly the FA Cup, not sure ? Still the Champions League and other midweek fixtures get big crowds IIRC. We talk finance; Man U and Arsenal et al are seriously expensive. Earlierr this year I got chatting to my Blue Star taxi drive, he would go to Spurs matches all around the country.

I do think season tickets create a lazy culture where combined with numerous factors people simply cannot be bothered to make the effort anymore. Will we fill Leigh for the semi?

[DaveO]

I do think the psyche of British people is very important. If an event is perceived as hugely impportant and tickets are scarce then Brits clamour to attend for all sorts of 'silly' sporting events.

I know there are numerous reasons / excuses as to why fans no longer attend such RL event in huge numbers. I do think Monday night is now a big factor. Yet in the past, midweek fixtures AND multiple fixtures in a very short space of time were famously celebrated / acknowledged even heralded as mission impossibles etc. Those seasons make a mockery somewhat of cash flow / midweek arguments.

Put a fixture on in Wigan and you could always get a crowd; friendly fixtures, Wigan 7's, Wardonia/Locker Cup. Alliance fixtures were attended in greater numbers, a debut of a big name would see attendances bigger for reserve fixtures / alliance fixtures than we get for non season ticket events now. British Coal 9's; GB v PNG. Even Springfield Borough did ok, I went to several of their games. The Ken Gee Cup was once a much bigger event too.

Does football have a similar problem? Without investigating the League Cup struggles more now, possibly the FA Cup, not sure ? Still the Champions League and other midweek fixtures get big crowds IIRC. We talk finance; Man U and Arsenal et al are seriously expensive. Earlierr this year I got chatting to my Blue Star taxi drive, he would go to Spurs matches all around the country.

I do think season tickets create a lazy culture where combined with numerous factors people simply cannot be bothered to make the effort anymore. Will we fill Leigh for the semi?

We have always had season tickets but we didn't always have other interests. And by "we" I mean the population generally. For example going to the pub was a much more regular occurrence on a social level than it is now. Why is that? Because smoking is banned but less people smoke now than used to? Because drink driving is banned? Maybe a factor (!) but it's just an illustration that things are different now for God knows what reason.

I do think what you say about the importance of the event is a factor. The RFL put more effort into marketing Millenium Magic than they do CC rounds even quarter and semi-finals.

Even the club puts more marketing effort into the "Big One" or equivalent than it does into cup games.

I really do think the cup suffers just as the league does due to the emphasis on the play-offs and GF. If the RL establishment says the be-all and end-all is winning the GF the history of the CC won't save its reputation IMO.

[devon jim 1]

Yet again I agree Dave O

[markill]

We have always had season tickets but we didn't always have other interests. And by "we" I mean the population generally.

I agree with that Dave. I'd add to that the availability of other 'goods' to substitute going to a Rugby game with has got greater - both in numbers of substitute goods and in the ease at getting them (sitting on your arse with 100s of TV channels to choose from for one). Some things that are more popular at the minute don't cost much either, like cycling (how many cyclists are there now!) isn't very expensive at all once you have the bike, and I got mine 2nd hand for £85 and cycled across the country on it - the reason I missed the Leigh cup game.

I wouldn't have gone to this round's game either if it was on Saturday or Sunday as I'd promised the Mrs we'd go and visit her brother, so I'd have been sat in front of a TV rather than in my seat at the DW. I'm sure everyone has likewise examples, or similarly examples of foregoing one match to save to be able to afford to go to another (miss a 1/4 to go to a semi or final for e.g.). I don't think its laziness personally, but thats based on the experiences of me and people I know.

[Mike]

I'm not too sure its due to a devaluation of the cup - the playoffs have the same problem with low crowds.

I'd say the sport is going though a lull right now. The enthusiasm needs to be raised somehow. The onyl way is to get people to believe that the "event" is a big one. IMO one way to do that is to do everything we can to get bigger crowds with too much regard for revenue. We've got to start getting full stadia by charging very low prices.

cp thniks its cheaper now than in the 80s. I think i paid 50p a match as a junior then, with £2 for an adult. The price is 8x higher now at £16 (which is cheaper than a SL fixture), so thats about a 10% increase per year over 30 years. I'd say thats relatively more expensive now than in the 80s.

[Kaii]

I'm sure most of those that did go, were either unemployed, had no pressing commitments the following day (eg school for kids) or were lucky enough to have 9-5 jobs that ensure the ridiculous scheduling (that has no consideration for the paying fan) did not prevent them watching "live"

Well for me the second the match was over i had to rush to the car park where i got in to my work clothes, drive my girlfriend and son home then rush to work. The complete opposite of what you described.

Not at all. No disrespect but you prove my point exactly. The match finished at just gone 9.42pm. You obviously lived close enough to the stadium AND to your works for your actions to be viable (assuming you start work at 10pm). If you are on flexi-hours then you have no point to make at all

How many others have that scenario?

I know season ticket holders that HAVE to leave matches early just in order to make their start of work (and that is for Friday matches). They are still true supporters but whose game-time is ruled by work

If your works are anything like mine then you will have to book your holidays months in advance just for the chance to get them in Summer. The chances for an "odd" day of in the middle of July are nominal to say the least, especially for a specific date. Monday night fixtures, especially ones arranged relatively soon after a previous round can always expect poor attendances, not to mention other points, the likes of DaveO point to

22:30 start 20 mile (work at Jaguar Land Rover in Speke) car journey so work nowhere near the stadium

[DaveO]

I'm not too sure its due to a devaluation of the cup - the playoffs have the same problem with low crowds.

But the playoffs aren't a straight knockout and have their own problems anyway. The top four can't go out on week 1 so are hardly crucial must attend games and I just think there is a general level of cynicism there that makes the early rounds be seen as pointless.

The cup on the other hand as a true knockout ought to have a much higher level of interest and IMO that interest would be increased if it was a clubs last chance of success this season with the league already out of reach. It's not when we have the playoffs.

When the playoffs were introduced a big argument in favour was it prolonged interest in the season for clubs who were no longer capable of coming top. Well IMO the CC with the CC at the end of the season as it used to be did just that.

I'd say the sport is going though a lull right now. The enthusiasm needs to be raised somehow. The onyl way is to get people to believe that the "event" is a big one. IMO one way to do that is to do everything we can to get bigger crowds with too much regard for revenue. We've got to start getting full stadia by charging very low prices.

I think this works to a degree but even if tickets are cheap it won't work unless the event really is a big event and has kudos. I do think the RFL went too far in promoting the GF to the detriment of the cup (as well as the league). The fact they seemingly spend more time promoting the Magic weekend is just another shot in the foot IMO.

cp thniks its cheaper now than in the 80s. I think i paid 50p a match as a junior then, with £2 for an adult. The price is 8x higher now at £16 (which is cheaper than a SL fixture), so thats about a 10% increase per year over 30 years. I'd say thats relatively more expensive now than in the 80s.

I think you are right there. I have much more disposable income now but the thought of a repeat performance of following the team as I did in the Mission Impossible run-in would be prohibitive.

[cpwigan]

It is a very complex issue BUT something has definitely changed. I always believed it was a glut of meaningless fixtures but the CC is knockout RL and nothing gets more meaningful than that.

I bow to Mikes recollection of cost. I have no real data. I started watching Wigan around 1983 / 4. I cannot remember the year may be mid 80s / late 90s but I seem to recall a figure of £50 for a season ticket. If and I have no reason to doubt it the cost of a RL match has increased at such a rate then surely football has increased at a far greater rate? I used to attend both RL and Football fixtures with Wigan Athletic costing then approximately the same as Wigan RL.

I just looked at Man U full season ticket they range from £950 to £532 U16s are restricted to only 2 sections (not great ones) at £190. Wigan RLFC a junior can have a season ticket from as little as £13-£26; An adult for £206 (Does that not compare Mike with our era) which suggest RL is still incredibly cheap compared to the best football clubs, football clubs that have waiting lists for a 70,000 Stadia. So is finance so critical?

Something is wrong in terms of RL IMO

[southernpie]

It is a very complex issue BUT something has definitely changed. I always believed it was a glut of meaningless fixtures but the CC is knockout RL and nothing gets more meaningful than that.

I bow to Mikes recollection of cost. I have no real data. I started watching Wigan around 1983 / 4. I cannot remember the year may be mid 80s / late 90s but I seem to recall a figure of £50 for a season ticket. If and I have no reason to doubt it the cost of a RL match has increased at such a rate then surely football has increased at a far greater rate? I used to attend both RL and Football fixtures with Wigan Athletic costing then approximately the same as Wigan RL.

I just looked at Man U full season ticket they range from £950 to £532 U16s are restricted to only 2 sections (not great ones) at £190. Wigan RLFC a junior can have a season ticket from as little as £13-£26; An adult for £206 (Does that not compare Mike with our era) which suggest RL is still incredibly cheap compared to the best football clubs, football clubs that have waiting lists for a 70,000 Stadia. So is finance so critical?

Something is wrong in terms of RL IMO

Where I worked through the 90's 11 from 14 of my colleagues had season tickets mainly for Man Utd and a couple of Man City, by the late 2000's only 2 still had ST's and cost was a major factor in the others relinquishing theirs.
The joke at work was that recently there are more Man U fans from London (Milton Keynes) than from Manchester. IMO a lot of this comes back to marketing of the sport.

I have gone from watching every home game and most away games, to picking my matches. As far as the CC is concerned, I now usually come on board at the Semi Final (I did go to 2011 QF against Wire). The big change for me was the advent of Super League, I have other interests that mainly run through the summer that take away from my disposable income. So for me the relative cost itself is not the factor so much as the finances I have available.

There was a report on the radio the other day, where some financial expert was saying virtually everyone's disposable income has gone down in real terms over the last 5 or 6 years due to wages staying static or very low pay rises, whereas the cost of living / consumables has risen by a higher rate.

[cpwigan]

Some unmentioned factors;

Has summer RL actually worked? Do British people watch sport at distinct times of the year? Traditional 'national' festive holidays swelling attendances such as Boxing Day and New Years Day or Good Friday and Easter Monday etc; Challenge Cup attendances were higher when played earlier in the year? IIRC, pre summer RL the premiership games were never a huge sell. Are we missing the Kangaroo / Kiwi tours?

We were always told better stadia / all seater stadia = better attendances. Is that true? Do they matter?