TrueBlueWarrior wrote:Paul Anderson - 1 LLS
Shaun Wane - 1LLS and 1CC
Tony Smith - Failed 3 times to win a GF with clearly the best squad at Warrington, but he has won it previously and CC's with Wire.
I rate Paul Anderson as the coach of the season the giants aren't the best squad and he has turned them round
Look at it this way wire and hudds both play now better and more successfully under their respective coaches, can the same be said of wigan?
You are correct they are playing better than us but excluding the LLS which we won last year, they haven't won anything yet, we have!!
Excluding the LLS they havent won anything??? Contradiction in terms.
Obv the LLS means nothing that they are the form team.
Lazy J wrote:The most worrying thing about this is wanes reluctance to change things. As a defending side we stood off and watched Leeds play, we were terrified of thier halfbacks. Leeds swamped us and stopped what little half back play we have. Green is a poor standoff, smith has a bit of flair but they are hampered by our "structured" play. We need a halfback that will mix up play, take on the line occasionally rather than pass, out attack is too laboured, stevie wonder could read it.
Wane needs to admit that he has got it wrong again, it's no good whipping the floor with teams in may, to be burnt out and laboured at the business end of the season.
All that has saved him is that cup win against a woefully hull side
Agree 100%.
He has now done this 2 seasons in a row, exactly the same thing, and learned nothing, time to get rid!!
We might think otherwise BUT sport at the top level is damn difficult. In ANY sport it is easier to defend than attack. Match a good defence v a good attack and I will take the good defence 99 times out of a 100 to win.
In RL terms it is slightly more complex / difficult than say football for example. In RL, field position and possession (important in any team sport) are the key determinants IMO of who wins / loses. You do get games that dispel that belief BUT if you take 50 / 100 / 1000 games they will be the minority.
At a high level, perhaps any level, it is far easier to defend in RL in the opposition 20 / at the very least their half. Logically and stating the obvious, the worst place to defend is your own try line / your own half. Two teams playing well tend to cancel each other out 'getting in the arm wrestle so to speak'. IMO it can become akin to RL tennis making your ground, good kick and chase; opponents catch the kick and repeat the process UNTIL somebody makes a mistake / cracks. I personally think Wigan under Wane try to fly in the face of this most basic 'law' of RL.
You have to concentrate on set completion and territorial gain in your own half. Otherwise you leave yourselves open to defending for the majority of the game and rarely getting a good attacking field position. Poor discipline in terms of ball control and ill-discipline in terms of on field conduct mean the opposing team get more possession overall BUT vitally that possession is often in your own half / 20 leaving a Wigan team expending their energy defending their own line / sometimes for repeat sets with very limited energy left for advancing down field when Wigan get their limited possessions. Worse what possession Wigan do get wasted as tired players = more mistakes and fatigued players are more likely to incur injuries that affect not only the current game but also forthcoming games.
Wigan are not alone is committing such cardinal sins of RL. Wire, at times, are equally stupid due to IMO arrogance and over confidence. Chris Bridge is the perfect example of how stupid British RL players can be. Hence, why Leeds have been so successful in recent seasons. The Rhinos play a much more sensible game of RL than the likes of Wigan and Warrington, even more when it comes to finals football. Warrington have shown they can play to a similar level as they did v Huddersfield. How often have Wigan done so under Wane? Are Huddersfield doing anything special? How can a team go from also-rans to LLW in half a season? Everybody acknowledges and understands that British RL is not at the same level as Australian RL but our clubs do their upmost to prove conclusively that is the case with unbelievable stupidity and a lack of mental toughness.
Wigan under Wane shows no regard for field position in terms of tactics. Our approach towards playing in our own half and dominating field position borders on lunacy. Whatever happened to backs scooting / 1 pass drives from our own line for the full set if need be until we obtain a better field position. Charnley/Tomkins/Richards are or at least were excellent at scooting upfield. Some of the best tries ever scored in recent season came from Charnley and Tomkins scooting. Goulding is an excellent scooter. Thornley could be good if he works harder! THE ABILITY OF OUR OUTSIDE BACKS TO DO HARD YARDS IS AN ADVANTAGE WE HAVE OVER OTHER TEAMS.
Many teams are now going down the ‘big is best’ route.
Those huge guys signed by Hudds, Saints for next season, Lawton from Widnes are the slowest, least agile players on the pitch in any match whomever they play against. They are also in some respects conditioned very differently expecting to be interchanged after a quarter etc. You can if you wish match like for like BUT why not EXPLOIT the size of these giants? What do big guys hate? Speed and agility! Repeat efforts!! I want to see those lumbering giants ‘gassed’! zig zag left right to make them work twice in the same set. Tie the big guys into where you are working. If they are tackling you then they are the worst dummy half defenders possible making the next scoot / 1 pass drive even better and gaining more yards. In our 20, YARDS, FINDING THE FLOOR QUICKLY IN GOOD POSITION, GOOD FAST NEXT POTB, MAKING THE OPP TIGHT ‘A’ DEFENDERS WORK THEIR BEHINDS OFF, THE BIGGER YOU ARE THE HARDER IT IS TO GO BACKWARDS. You want a Big Earl gasping! A Mark O’Meley wanting to go back to Aus. 20 minutes should leave the lungs of any opposition front rower BURNING!! The more the ball is passed / the more it moves laterally THE MORE CHANCE OF ERRORS, SURRENDERING POSSESSION, A POORER FIELD POSITION RESULTS, THE MORE DEFENCE IS ON THE FRONT FOOT, THE LESS DEMANDS HAVE BEEN PLACED ON YOUR OPPONENTS FORWARDS AND THE WORSE SCENARIO FOR A DOWNTOWN KICK & CHASE. If these strategies were good enough for Madge, good enough for John Monie, Graham Lowe, every successful NRL coach / team then why not High and Mighty MR WIGAN!! You play the hand you are dealt with and our team is not full of big boppers.
If you have a game won, 30pts+ lead then by all means throw a wide shift in every now and then to add unpredictability but why not follow RL basic logic and do the fundamentals rather than trying to conjure cores every set. What happened to patience? What happened to the fundamentals of field position & possession?
From the 20 to the half way line LOOK at how laterally spread Wigan are. The distance between the POTB (Mac) and his halfbacks 20 yards away. How few forwards are around the POTB. Talk about giving the game away and cutting down your options!!! I think Mac can work the POTB IF he has the forwards are around him. Likewise Smith / Green. Those big boppers you have been tiring will be trying to gather their breadth, getting lazy resting. Put a Taylor v them, a Liam Farrell, a Lockers, even better when he plays / has played why not drop off to young Hampshire with his speed / evasion. Do you think Morley / Carvell / Crabtree / Kopzak / Peacock / Kylie want to face the like of Ryan Hampshire / Robbie Burrow etc. What do Lunt or Higham like to do? Attack or TACKLE!!! Make them work. Monaghan at 9 is on his last legs BURN HIM. Yes put the odd shift on in your own half but it is still about possession / field position. Why do we never kick early? Why has Mac stopped kicking? Richards has a huge boot, use it occasionally. Ultimately though Kickers are made to look good or bad by the yardage being gained / speed of POTB. Why wait until the last to kick? If you are concentrating on field position then you can kick earlier in the set if need be. Less chance of mistakes that way too.
If you have a game won, 30pts+ lead then by all means throw a trick play like a chip over in your own half every now and then to add unpredictability but why not follow RL basic logic and do the fundamentals rather than trying to conjure cores every set. What happened to patience? What happened to the fundamentals of field position & possession?
Whomever we play EVERY TEAM is far less dangerous if they are in their own 20. Turn opposing teams around. Those Big boppers you have been burning are gasping at being turned around, the last thing they want is to hit it up and if they do your fresh forwards can massacre them. If their backs want to scoot etc, compress and massacre them as their big boppers are not set and still panting. An advantage Wigan has is the fitness & agility of forwards like Farrell/Hansen/Lockers/Mac Play to your strengths!!!
Odd isn’t it ALL THE ABOVE is how we played under Madge. The players need to man up, screw Wane and go back to what works, THE MADGE WAY. Win games in the first half/watch opposing players get injured through fatigue not ours/watch opposing players make mistakes NOT ours.
Even in the opp 20 you want Mac to be a pest going or the try line from acting half. Lunt / Higham / Hulls 9 are pests; greedy pests!! They sometimes go themselves when they should pass BUT they tie the A defenders and more in so when you do move it more time / less pressure for their halves. How good is Brough? Is he effective in his own 20 OR downright difficult to contain in your 20 with his trick kicks etc FIELD POSITION IS EVERYTHING!!! Make Brough / Robinson play in their own 20 they suck as do most / all half backs. Put them in your 20 and you are asking for trouble. Wire sent chasers from Broughs kicking foot side to negate his kick. Do we ever do things like that?
The players have got to enjoy playing hard ball. Remembers the pathetic promises by our current blundering coach mixed with veiled criticisms of the Madge Way. You are supposedly watching a team that will be bigger / stronger / faster / far better skills / put teams to the sword / win games that we previously lost LOL / win games by much bigger margins than previously lol REMEMBER THOSE CRAPPY FALSE PROMISES???? Bull / Bravado / Garbage ????? These players are NEARLY ALL according to his cheerleaders produced by Wane!!! Why are they so bad at putting the Wane Way into Practice? Perhaps because apart from Gary Schofield NOBODY believes you can re-write the basics of modern day RL.
WE have the best player in SL (Lockers!!) WE have the best attacker in SL (Tomkins!!) WE have some seriously good RL players WE have some amazing youngsters WE have the best conditioning team WE have a numpty coach who inherited a winning team / formula. Can people explain Eric or Powell as signings Can people explain trying to turn Hughes into a centre then not playing him there? Can people explain a RIGHTY Green having to play LEFTY Can people explain Mac not playing the 80 instead of the by the clock interchange? Why not have a halfback on the interchange if/when you need to replace him? Why have Greenwood or Tom Spencer never been given more chances? Why was Greg Burke selected at 13 for several games but not v Catalans? Why has H a man with a horrible wrist injury been asked to hit flat crash balls when his wrist makes it so hard for him to retain the ball as he takes the tackle? Why do we no longer kick for Pat and now Pat/Thornley? Too many decisions by Wane defy logic, look poor / are poor yet some poor souls allow him to hide behind AWWW but he is a Wiganer!!!! So is Fat Harry but does he get treated like a God ?????
Sorry but Wane had a fabulous RL education; ASK Paul Deacon!! An incredibly legacy and he is screwing it up whether we win at Wembley or not which I hope and think we can do but despite the coach NOT because of him. Wane is Dorahay MkII
Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
I rate Paul Anderson as the coach of the season the giants aren't the best squad and he has turned them round
Look at it this way wire and hudds both play now better and more successfully under their respective coaches, can the same be said of wigan?
You are correct they are playing better than us but excluding the LLS which we won last year, they haven't won anything yet, we have!!
Excluding the LLS they havent won anything??? Contradiction in terms.
Obv the LLS means nothing that they are the form team.
That is why I said 'excluding' the LLS they haven't won anything meaning the only 2 trophies that matter are the GF and CC. I am not going to keep explaining everything to you, it is ok to read between the lines!!
'If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them.' - Wayne Bennett
ScouseWarrior wrote:the problem is who would we possibly replace Wane with? there are no coaches in SL I would take ahead of him right now, don't really follow the NRL so I couldn't make any suggestions from there
ScouseWarrior wrote:the problem is who would we possibly replace Wane with? there are no coaches in SL I would take ahead of him right now, don't really follow the NRL so I couldn't make any suggestions from there
ScouseWarrior wrote:the problem is who would we possibly replace Wane with? there are no coaches in SL I would take ahead of him right now, don't really follow the NRL so I couldn't make any suggestions from there
Another awful display from Wigan. It's been dreadful non-stop with almost all league games lost for 2 solid months. I thought most coaches got the push if they got such terrible results over such a period? This 'decision' to both chuck the league, just play dire and it will be all okay when it matters is rubbish. Am not watching them next season and will probably cease before they are thrashed in the play offs. Their attack since Warrington has been non-existent and this has nothing to do with any one player who is absent. I thought the Wigan motto was Ancient and Loyal, ambling and shambling best describes this lot. What a waste of one's hard earned cash!
Some very good points there. I was disappointed by so many aspects tonight. I know the on-field injuries didn't help but their forwards, especially Peacock, made far more yards than ours, their wings always looked dangerous and we gave their half-backs all the time in the world to make their decisions. Leeds were very good, aggressive and psyched up right.
We had no answer. Without Lockers, we didn't have our deadly attacking triangle. Micky Mac seems to be instructions not to make runs from dummy half. Ryan Hall made some huge yards against poor upper body tackling - even by Liam F.
It's hard to see how we could conceivably beat the Giants.
I've always liked SW and, judging from Wembley, the players love him, but this season's collapse is baffling and it's SW who has to come up with the answers.
Yes, we do have some fantastic youngsters but they're not going to turn into Sinfield, Tomkins or Peacock overnight. All of a sudden, we don't look good enough, by some margin.
Want to pay tribute to Darryl Goulding - the lad missed the Cup presentation, came back tonight and got flattened
again. He's a class centre and superb drag-them-into touch tackler and he deserves an unsore head for a few weeks.
