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John Ferguson wrote:]

cpwigan wrote:

I will not sway from my view that last night was payback for IL opposing the RFL and EM supporting the RFL.

That's an embarrassing statement.

Why? In RL / on the sporting field you will be amazed how decisions are actually taken, what, who and why?

REMEMBER, We had some crazy bewildering officiating in the previous game and we had similar ones in this game.

There are documented instances in RL history of match officials / governing body officials behaving unscrupulously.

JF Et Al I do think you really need to consider what has been happening in RL in the last 12 months. We have had virtual civil war and those in power have been desperately trying to cling onto their positions and assert their authority / control.

Payback :exc:

TrueBlueWarrior wrote:

platt-warrior wrote:

Panchitta Marra wrote: It's difficult not to react when someone hits you in the face with his elbow, I am sure you know what reaction you would have made CP, as I know what my reaction would have been.
Running in from 10yds aiming an elbow to the face is more of a cowardly action instead.
Ben reacted but just took it one step too far.
Sadly I see a double figure match ban pending as a result of a player, possibly already concussed being hit with another punch.
Ben Flower is no coward and far from it.

What 2 absolutely disgraceful posts from 2 posters i once had some
respect for.

Why? Hohaia was as equally as coward as Flower if you want to be fussy about it! He hit Flower off the ball when he wasn't looking. Flower punched him face on, although the 2nd punch was bang out of order!!

He sure was, and it will be interesting to see what action, if any, the RFL will take against him when he was the person who created the incident by chasing after Flower to strike him.

Hanley the God! wrote:NOW, I say go easy on Ben, as does Shaun Wane. The lad will clearly be absolutely devastated and will be for some time. He'll always be remembered for contributing towards Wigan losing the 2014 Grand Final. A game which we know was ours to lose - but it is only a game!!

The club never mind the RFL should throw the book at him. You can't let the guy off that easily for costing us the entire season, against Saints and bringing the club and game into disrepute.

The time to get behind him is when he has been punished and he re-earns the respect of the fans by his actions.

All this "what would you have done if someone elbowed you" is just a big excuse. Lockers would not have reacted like this at all.

Wigan need to ensure that Ben Flower is not mentally damaged by this incident by the extreme pressure that the media and RL supporters are applying onto him.

He may well already be busted flush in that department. Remember Fielden was never the same again after his boxing attempts. While obviously it was Ben who decked the other player unlike Fielden these things can get into your head. I have absolutely no idea how this will affect his aggression as a forward or whether he will now be the easiest player to intimidate on an RL pitch as he dare not retaliate.

he lost us the game simple as

All this 'he cost us the game' is ifs and buts. I don't like it (especially as it was against Stains) that we lost any more than any of you but we could look at a thousand 'what ifs'.
* WHAT IF (our kicker had been more successful)
* WHAT IF (our fullback was a bit more on form on the night)
* WHAT IF (Flower had stayed on the pitch and we had put less effort in cause we didn't 'need' to fight like dogs to survive - cause 'its only Saints')
* WHAT IF (Hohaia hadn't needed to go off and he had played like the player of the year)
* WHAT IF (other props had performed as Ben does most weeks?)
See what I mean?
Not even Ben can condone what he did but all I know is that a) I don't want to see another Terry Newton, b) I didn't like Ben's statement that this will 'stay with him till the end of his career' - like his career will not be there for much longer & c) he is our best prop and I want him back on that field playing as he has been(less this indiscretion)
Lets see the outcome of the police, RFL etc investigations and punishments and then judge?!?! For me - the worst punishment he could possibly have was standing in front of the rest of his team! This man was escorted out by his dad before half time 'crying like no-one of his stature I have ever seen' (IL). He felt shame for his family, the Team, the fans etc. I can think of nothing worse!!!

You cannot say Ben lost us the game given teams win matches a man down and we bombed several opportunities.

OAMJSS wrote:he lost us the game simple as

He certainly made it more difficult but if the referee had took the appropriate action both teams would have been down to 12!!

KaylaRobbo wrote:All this 'he cost us the game' is ifs and buts.

No it's not. It a fact. None of what you said after this happened. Flower getting sent off did and everything else flows from there. It really is that simple.

He cost us the game. Everybody else knows he did including Ben Flower!

There is no way on earth he isn't going to get punished for it and IMO the club needs to sanction him as well.

Talk of his rehabilitation before he has even been banned is premature.

The club has made a right mess of the publicity of this with the documentary and all the work IL did of getting Wigan "liked" again following on from the DW reign has gone up in smoke.

We are now a team of thugs and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

And this will stay with him for the rest for his career and why would you expect otherwise? Just like Don Fox will never forget missing a kick to win the cup final in front of the sticks. He will have to deal with it and the best way is to take the punishment and carry on playing afterwards.

Flower is not the victim here.

DaveO wrote:

KaylaRobbo wrote:All this 'he cost us the game' is ifs and buts.

No it's not. It a fact. None of what you said after this happened. Flower getting sent off did and everything else flows from there. It really is that simple.

He cost us the game. Everybody else knows he did including Ben Flower!

There is no way on earth he isn't going to get punished for it and IMO the club needs to sanction him as well.

Talk of his rehabilitation before he has even been banned is premature.

The club has made a right mess of the publicity of this with the documentary and all the work IL did of getting Wigan "liked" again following on from the DW reign has gone up in smoke.

We are now a team of thugs and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

And this will stay with him for the rest for his career and why would you expect otherwise? Just like Don Fox will never forget missing a kick to win the cup final in front of the sticks. He will have to deal with it and the best way is to take the punishment and carry on playing afterwards.

Flower is not the victim here.

If flower stays on we have a much better chance of winning the game - FACT

When Flower was sent off it made it much harder for us to win the game - FACT

Did Flower cost us the game - OPINION

Did Bentham cost us the game - OPINION

Did Smith missing kicks - OPINION

Did Bowen cost us not passing - OPINION

Did Williams for going high on Soliola - OPINION

I don't think it is that simple DaveO but I hear your point.

One last thing, Flower was certainly the victim when Hohaia smashed him and was lucky to not receive a broken jaw!!