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sc74 wrote:

Shaun1967 wrote:

sc74 wrote:Time will tell, either success or mediocrity/failure.

Half will be right and the other half wrong.

Time tells us everyone's right.
Over the last 2 seasons it's brought us success and failure.

Exactly. Success, followed by no success.

So it's either one or the other or both.
Mike explained things better.

jobo wrote:Mike,
That would have been a great take on it, if it actually existed.

Which it does, even the 'great man' himself talks about his system.

Thanks for the explanation Mike

Mike wrote:

Garydog wrote:Should say waneball

Its the style of play where we shift the ball sideways a lot regardless of field position. I.e. we'll do it in our own 20 (occasionally leading to tries like against Brisbane but occasionally leading to errors near our own line) as mush as we do it in the oppositions 20.

Its generally assumed that this style has been developed by Wane after Michael Mcguire introduced a lot of second man attacking moves.

Critics suggest that we expend too much energy with the ball with this style, its high risk and we struggle to make metres effectively which puts the team under pressure.

I hope that is a fair summary.

I would only add that Critics suggest that we expend too much energy WITHOUT the ball with this style as well because the errors usually result in a turnover so we end up tackling a lot more as well.

If you add in ill-discipline, which also may or may not be partly down to Wane's influence depending on your point of view, then if all this comes together in a bad way you draw v 12 men, chuck away a 6-20 lead at HKR and lose a winnable match v Brisbane.

As to v Hull FC, I hope we win and hope our dire form isn't enough to give them the confidence needed to tough it out v us. A side adopting a safety first approach v us currently is always in with a chance.

Errors and ill discipline are generally linked to fatigue. The players are not lacking fitness, far from it but they ordinarily have to use/sometimes waste far more energy than their opponents. You then throw in the psychological affect of the scoreline upon effort / desire / determination and dumb RL asks too much of whomever has to play it. One of the worst and most damaging impacts of dumb RL is that injuries more readily occur due to the fatigue / pressure placed upon the players 'forced' to put dumb RL into practice.

cpwigan wrote:Errors and ill discipline are generally linked to fatigue.

And fatigue leads to errors and ill-discipline.

At the moment I am not sure which of these two things starts the ball rolling the wrong way.

I don't think every daft penalty for ill discipline an be linked to fatigue for example.

Shaun1967 wrote:

sc74 wrote:

Shaun1967 wrote: Time tells us everyone's right.
Over the last 2 seasons it's brought us success and failure.

Exactly. Success, followed by no success.

So it's either one or the other or both.
Mike explained things better.

In response to your quote of success and failure.
Success with a good team, followed by no success with a weaker team. No?

We gave away as many penalties under Maguire as we do under Wane. So ill discipline shouldn't really come into the conversation around Waneball and what I suppose would be called Madgeball. Mike's explanation was spot on.

So we lost the GF due to Waneball???
We werent far off winning with twelve men, using "waneball" and if Bowen had turned the ball inside instead of out we would have won. The teams not playing well after a tough start, preperation has been disrupted with the world club games but there is an agenda on here to stick the boot in Waney, what excuse will we hear when it turns round, because it will. The teams not as strong as last year, Greens a big loss and Lockers is injured but we have some quality and players like Williams will be great for us.

slimshady wrote:So we lost the GF due to Waneball???
We werent far off winning with twelve men, using "waneball" and if Bowen had turned the ball inside instead of out we would have won. The teams not playing well after a tough start, preperation has been disrupted with the world club games but there is an agenda on here to stick the boot in Waney, what excuse will we hear when it turns round, because it will. The teams not as strong as last year, Greens a big loss and Lockers is injured but we have some quality and players like Williams will be great for us.

You might want to tread carefully there...
You could and I would argue that Wane has recruited well, developed many great players (in his current and previous incarnations), has put in place/not dismantled superb conditioning and has been very successful by the standards of Wigan coaches in the SL era.
My frustration is that it is clear that the NRL are streets ahead of us, and so we need to find a way to bring best practice to the club. Either replace the head coach or bring in a talented assistant (or even an overseeing guru like Salford have). In isolation, we will fall further behind.
We could even have a formula whereby we have 3 years NRLer and 3 years home grown, on repeat.
As to the style we play, we have won so many games playing it, it clearly often works. At least we have a plan - if people would care to dust off old Noble tapes, then pretty quickly we'll realise things could be a lot worse.
Oh, and he's a PR disaster, managing to annoy opposition and Wigan fans in pretty much equal measure. Not that I care but I know lots of people do use that as a stick to beat him.
Back to the game. We'll be fine and we'll win next week. We have a very good team, one of the best, with Leeds and Wire.