Time to go Wane

[menpond]

Its very hard on the players.They gave everything they had but are totally outmuscled and end upbeaten up,nothing to do with spirit.We have one top backrow in the club J. Tomkins playing centre and look at CATS no 11 to see the real article. He dominated us.Every position is light at best,and selection was terrible.2 average club props plus a 19 year old trainee, OL knackered AND unfit,Bateman never a forward/more a standoff or centre,and 2 new second rows with potential when and if bought up to scratch. MB is no use to a side as fragile as we are. No wonder we get bashed up.The team reflects Wanes lack of planning and player judgement over 3 and half years.ILsays we do it together,so who sacks who????

[cpwigan]

I told Kris Rads yesterday is that good enough for you?

This great club / halcyon era is being destroyed from within ably supported by the likes of WW and seemingly yourself. Your choice.

By WW, I take it you mean me.

If so, it may interest you to know that I also think that something is wrong with team at the moment which seems to have coincided with the resigning of Sam Tomkins and rumours of other signings from here and down under.

And please stop going on about 'helcyon eras' as other club's have good and bad times as well.

I think CP was discussing it with me WW, as his post is a direct reply to mine.

CP you mentioned that your posts about Wane are not personal?
Why use the words "Moron" and "thick as pig shit" if they're not meant to be personal.
How would you react had someone putting the word moron towards you and calling you thick as pig shit.
Speaking to Kris Radlinski isn't the same as talking to Shaun Wane in the light of your comments towards Wane.

It is not personal. It is the truth as exemplified from the moment Wane took over. I am guessing he is a fantastic junior coach but at an elite level his lack of intelligence shines through. How would I react? when I was a child, I would have physically attacked him/her/whomever. As an adult, it would mean nothing. Do you seriously think it means anything to Wane? He would simply say just another internet gobshite, moron and probably what do they know, I know better.Remember this is the man who said he could do better than Madge.

Ask yourself this, if somebody educated you to show you the secrets of how to be mega successful and you ignore it/blow it are you not a moron? It is akin to having THE winning lottery ticket and tearing it up.

Ask yourself, if you are blowing such a fantastic legacy and in the process insulting your peers, talking nonsense are you not a gobshite?

It is never personal, just an opinion based on what I perceive, what others say. You have not answered the questions yourself have you.

[DaveO]

Back to back defeats and it's jump on Wanes back yet again.
Names mentioned like Moron and thick as pig shit.
If it's that bad have the balls to at least tell the man face to face instead of using a website to vent your anger.

It's not back to back defeats. It's a longer term view than that for some people who have been pointing out problems last season as well as this.

If you want back to back defeats that should go some way to costing his job it's last season's and this cup exit. Both times v Cas and HKR pathetic performances got us knocked out and cost the club a fortune.

As to blaming players two things about that. He picks the team and decides to put Williams at 6 and Powell at 9 for example and secondly if they have lost confidence in him it doesn't matter how good they are they won't play well.

It's also things like not addressing the goal kicking that call his judgement into question.

The best you can say about Wigan at the moment is you don't know which side will turn up and even then I think we are kidding ourselves if we expect it to be the good one when it matters.

Bottom line for me is it seems blindingly obvious Wane has absolutely no clue how to improve matters and sort the problems out.

If so he needs to go now. Not later but now.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

By WW, I take it you mean me.

If so, it may interest you to know that I also think that something is wrong with team at the moment which seems to have coincided with the resigning of Sam Tomkins and rumours of other signings from here and down under.

And please stop going on about 'helcyon eras' as other club's have good and bad times as well.

I think CP was discussing it with me WW, as his post is a direct reply to mine.

CP you mentioned that your posts about Wane are not personal?
Why use the words "Moron" and "thick as pig shit" if they're not meant to be personal.
How would you react had someone putting the word moron towards you and calling you thick as pig shit.
Speaking to Kris Radlinski isn't the same as talking to Shaun Wane in the light of your comments towards Wane.

It is not personal. It is the truth as exemplified from the moment Wane took over. I am guessing he is a fantastic junior coach but at an elite level his lack of intelligence shines through. How would I react? when I was a child, I would have physically attacked him/her/whomever. As an adult, it would mean nothing. Do you seriously think it means anything to Wane? He would simply say just another internet gobshite, moron and probably what do they know, I know better.Remember this is the man who said he could do better than Madge.

Ask yourself this, if somebody educated you to show you the secrets of how to be mega successful and you ignore it/blow it are you not a moron? It is akin to having THE winning lottery ticket and tearing it up.

Ask yourself, if you are blowing such a fantastic legacy and in the process insulting your peers, talking nonsense are you not a gobshite?

It is never personal, just an opinion based on what I perceive, what others say. You have not answered the questions yourself have you.

The 2nd season under Madge after the CC final finished with a whimper if I remember correctly plus it wasn't the exact same tools he was left with due to player turnover, so it's not that simple to compare!! Yes Madge is a top class coach and turned a losing team into a winning team but that team he had was far better than what SW has! Maybe that is SW's fault due to player recruitment!! Either way it's not easy to compare although I agree SW shouldn't have said he will do things better because he didn't know for sure he could!

[Wintergreen]

Its very hard on the players.They gave everything they had but are totally outmuscled and end upbeaten up,nothing to do with spirit.We have one top backrow in the club J. Tomkins playing centre and look at CATS no 11 to see the real article. He dominated us.Every position is light at best,and selection was terrible.2 average club props plus a 19 year old trainee, OL knackered AND unfit,Bateman never a forward/more a standoff or centre,and 2 new second rows with potential when and if bought up to scratch. MB is no use to a side as fragile as we are. No wonder we get bashed up.The team reflects Wanes lack of planning and player judgement over 3 and half years.ILsays we do it together,so who sacks who????

I would argue:

1. Tomkins is indeed a quality back rower and should ONLY play there. I also think Bateman is a quality player and will become outstanding in the back row.

2. Lockers is shot. Completely and utterly. Under a Salary Cap system there is no room for sentiment. He needs to go in order to accomodate a decent replacement.

3. Bowen. Oh dear. I feared when we bought him that it was a bad move, and sadly am being proven correct. Too old, too many miles on the clock.

4. Matty Smith- Why? Drop him and get George and Rocky playing at half back.

5. We need another centre. A top quality Aussie would unlock our wings and be worth his weight in gold.

[Wintergreen]

In terms of Wane, I am probably now leaning to the conclusion that he is not a head coach.
I don't believe that he has the intelligence and tactical ability to run the side.

He's obviously got the passion and enthusiasm and for that reason I think that Assistant Coach is where he can add the most value.

No shame in it. He had a go at the top job, but his skill set is better suited to a different role.

[jackoh]

I don t normally come onto this website , as it seems the same people are on it all the time .

I do though agree with Wintergreen on this .

The players have no pride in wearing the shirt . To be humiliated by Catalans and what I saw proves this.

Wane says he knows what to expect in France , well obviously he didn`t .

He is not a first grade coach , if he can`t get a team up for an important game , it s time for him to go.

Also Lenegan must take some blame in looking constantly at Wigans youth to solve problems , when they are plainly not ready or good enough .

[Panchitta Marra]

By WW, I take it you mean me.

If so, it may interest you to know that I also think that something is wrong with team at the moment which seems to have coincided with the resigning of Sam Tomkins and rumours of other signings from here and down under.

And please stop going on about 'helcyon eras' as other club's have good and bad times as well.

I think CP was discussing it with me WW, as his post is a direct reply to mine.

CP you mentioned that your posts about Wane are not personal?
Why use the words "Moron" and "thick as pig shit" if they're not meant to be personal.
How would you react had someone putting the word moron towards you and calling you thick as pig shit.
Speaking to Kris Radlinski isn't the same as talking to Shaun Wane in the light of your comments towards Wane.

It is not personal. It is the truth as exemplified from the moment Wane took over. I am guessing he is a fantastic junior coach but at an elite level his lack of intelligence shines through. How would I react? when I was a child, I would have physically attacked him/her/whomever. As an adult, it would mean nothing. Do you seriously think it means anything to Wane? He would simply say just another internet gobshite, moron and probably what do they know, I know better.Remember this is the man who said he could do better than Madge.

Ask yourself this, if somebody educated you to show you the secrets of how to be mega successful and you ignore it/blow it are you not a moron? It is akin to having THE winning lottery ticket and tearing it up.

Ask yourself, if you are blowing such a fantastic legacy and in the process insulting your peers, talking nonsense are you not a gobshite?

It is never personal, just an opinion based on what I perceive, what others say. You have not answered the questions yourself have you.

When Wane said he was going to be better than Madge, was it a bad statement. A person going into a job saying he is inferior to his predessessor then be will be inferior in his job. I don't see what Wane said as being bad, maybe just arrogant.
I have seen nothing that makes me see a much better coach readily available to make me want to jump all over Wane and push for him to go, not at this moment in time.
Do you see a currently available coach better than Wane?

[Panchitta Marra]

Back to back defeats and it's jump on Wanes back yet again.
Names mentioned like Moron and thick as pig shit.
If it's that bad have the balls to at least tell the man face to face instead of using a website to vent your anger.

It's not back to back defeats. It's a longer term view than that for some people who have been pointing out problems last season as well as this.

If you want back to back defeats that should go some way to costing his job it's last season's and this cup exit. Both times v Cas and HKR pathetic performances got us knocked out and cost the club a fortune.

As to blaming players two things about that. He picks the team and decides to put Williams at 6 and Powell at 9 for example and secondly if they have lost confidence in him it doesn't matter how good they are they won't play well.

It's also things like not addressing the goal kicking that call his judgement into question.

The best you can say about Wigan at the moment is you don't know which side will turn up and even then I think we are kidding ourselves if we expect it to be the good one when it matters.

Bottom line for me is it seems blindingly obvious Wane has absolutely no clue how to improve matters and sort the problems out.

If so he needs to go now. Not later but now.

McGuire picked Martin Gleeson in a vital Challenge Cup game, a game that Wigan lost. The game was lost with poor tackling from a player who had weeks previous, disappeared on a drinking binge in London. That players fitness was in doubt for that game and his errors cost Wigan the game.
Why was Madge not pulled for his failing to win a vital match due to his team selection?
I'm still on the fence with Wane and been there for a little while now but it doesn't justify me jumping all over him.
I don't see an option for change readily available.

[DaveO]

Back to back defeats and it's jump on Wanes back yet again.
Names mentioned like Moron and thick as pig shit.
If it's that bad have the balls to at least tell the man face to face instead of using a website to vent your anger.

It's not back to back defeats. It's a longer term view than that for some people who have been pointing out problems last season as well as this.

If you want back to back defeats that should go some way to costing his job it's last season's and this cup exit. Both times v Cas and HKR pathetic performances got us knocked out and cost the club a fortune.

As to blaming players two things about that. He picks the team and decides to put Williams at 6 and Powell at 9 for example and secondly if they have lost confidence in him it doesn't matter how good they are they won't play well.

It's also things like not addressing the goal kicking that call his judgement into question.

The best you can say about Wigan at the moment is you don't know which side will turn up and even then I think we are kidding ourselves if we expect it to be the good one when it matters.

Bottom line for me is it seems blindingly obvious Wane has absolutely no clue how to improve matters and sort the problems out.

If so he needs to go now. Not later but now.

McGuire picked Martin Gleeson in a vital Challenge Cup game, a game that Wigan lost. The game was lost with poor tackling from a player who had weeks previous, disappeared on a drinking binge in London. That players fitness was in doubt for that game and his errors cost Wigan the game.
Why was Madge not pulled for his failing to win a vital match due to his team selection?
I'm still on the fence with Wane and been there for a little while now but it doesn't justify me jumping all over him.
I don't see an option for change readily available.

I have been away for a short break (25th Wedding anniversary!) or I would have replied sooner.

I don't really understand your point re Gleeson or how it relates to Wane v Madge.

We lost to leads 12-10 in 2010 in the CC but went onto win the GF where Gleeson scored two tries and played a huge part in the victory.

Gleeson left early in 2011 when Madge was still the coach.

If there was an issue with Gleeson for the CC game there certainly wasn't later on for the GF and once things went totally pear shaped for him he was out of the door.

But as I said I don't see how this relates to Wane as we aren't talking a mistake over a selection for a game (assuming that is what Madge did re Gleeson on the CC) but problems that have been pointed out over a much longer period.

We lost the CC in 2010 but won it in 2011 under Madge. Wane has seen us exit the competition two seasons in a row with two equally poor performances against weak sides. HKR in particular were still without several 1st team players. You can't keep doing that and expect to keep your job as coach IMO.