WiganWarriorsFans.com

TrueBlueWarrior wrote:I think Josh leaving for more money has a bigger part to play than his relationship with SW!! By the way I don't blame him for leaving for more money at all!!

Iagree,and who can blame him.It's a short career,and with the wrong injury it's all over tomorrow.

Gutted, totally gutted at Josh leaving - scored 148 tries and kicked 94 goals in 152 games - clearly not good enough for us then is he!!!!
Like others I hate anyone going to union, dreadful game but a great cure for insomnia. I've always liked Josh and think some of the criticism he got on here was harsh at the time when he didn't have a proper centre inside him and had to get himself all over the pitch just to get his hands on the ball.
Too many of our best players being lured away. How long before one of these darned agents starts sniffing round Manfredi and Gildart & co.
Can only wish Josh the best but hate to see him go

TrueBlueWarrior wrote:

cpwigan wrote:The SC differential is a reality and very relevant Dave. I will never blame a player for securing a better future from an incredibly short career.

I totally agree re Wane never focussing upon himself and blaming players, highlighting specific ones.

Not sure it will happen but Josh going to Union may be a good thing as physically in his time with us he may concentrate of his speed/agility even to the point of trimming some bulk and become an even better finisher rather than having to bulk up to play the role of a prop in his own 20.

How many coaches blame themselves publicly?

He might blame himself privately to the players during private meetings, unless you attend I suppose you will never know!!

How many blame specific players?

I think we win together we lose together and I need to look at every aspect is far better than always blaming players, particularly individuals.

Ultimately, I think the cap is far more important.

Begs the question are we the only team playing to the cap or just expecting to pay nothing for players. If you look at the players weve lost in the last few years they would of all be expected to be at the sharp end of the cap distribution, yet we havent brought in as many top earners as weve let go.

we seem to have the hardest job retaining players out of the top sides, yet we are supposed to be the biggest club in the ESL

cpwigan wrote: Ultimately, I think the cap is far more important.

The cap is a convenient excuse if you let it become one CP

How do Wire sign Sandow and Simm and retain most of their senior players AND also strengthen their squad each year? Ditto Leeds? Hull? Saints?

Players move on (as they do at all clubs) but Wigan cannot continue being a feeder club for the NRL or Union if there is no long term consistency with the team.

At the moment their is NO guarantee that both Gildart and Manfredi will not have their suitors with massive offers all ready on the table?

cherry.pie wrote:To be fair, Charnley used to be an international winger, now he is still some way down the pecking order. He might see his chances of playing for England again diminishing, especially now there are already two wingers just from our own academy system who have become better players (Budgie and Manfredi).

They are not already better players. At this point in time Josh is better than the pair of them. Budgie is a favourite of mine and looks a natural RL player (unlike someone like Sarge for example) but defensively he isn't close to Josh and neither is Manfredi. As Josh is now fit again anyone can see he looks back to his best on attack as well.

It wouldn't surprise me if Josh is seeking a higher profile, which he can obviously achieve in rugby union. He may have a better chance of making the England RU team if he can adapt to Union. He stated last year that he might need a change as he's come to a crossroads in his career, so it wouldn't surprise me if the decision to leave was made a while ago.

Crossroads of his career? You are now making stuff up. He is 24 not 34 and should be reaching his peak as a winger. As to higher profile in RU he's gone to the wrong club for that. In RU players leave Sale to further their England chances as has happened recently and this isn't the RFU parachuting a player into a club with a view to him playing for England. If he plays for England I'd be very surprised.

butt monkey wrote:

cpwigan wrote: Ultimately, I think the cap is far more important.

The cap is a convenient excuse if you let it become one CP

How do Wire sign Sandow and Simm and retain most of their senior players AND also strengthen their squad each year? Ditto Leeds? Hull? Saints?

Players move on (as they do at all clubs) but Wigan cannot continue being a feeder club for the NRL or Union if there is no long term consistency with the team.

At the moment their is NO guarantee that both Gildart and Manfredi will not have their suitors with massive offers all ready on the table?

. . so what do you suggest we should do,bm?

butt monkey wrote:

cpwigan wrote: Ultimately, I think the cap is far more important.

The cap is a convenient excuse if you let it become one CP

How do Wire sign Sandow and Simm and retain most of their senior players AND also strengthen their squad each year? Ditto Leeds? Hull? Saints?

Players move on (as they do at all clubs) but Wigan cannot continue being a feeder club for the NRL or Union if there is no long term consistency with the team.

At the moment their is NO guarantee that both Gildart and Manfredi will not have their suitors with massive offers all ready on the table?

Spot on. The cap is a convenient excuse and since the game does manage to retain players like Hall at Leeds and those you mention so there is clearly more to moving or staying than money. Which was my point regarding the public criticism. Get publicly slagged off in your job and you will be far more likely look to move even if prior to this you had no intention of doing so.

In any case Josh has his farming interests outside the game. I don't know how much if an income he makes off that be he has other interests that might reduce the lure of cash elsewhere.

I am not fussed about Sarge going as I don't think he is that good but Josh is only 24 and is another loss we can ill afford.

How the club reacts is going to be interesting. On past form it will be promote another promising but inexperienced youngster but unless the club has another Budgie hidden away there is absolutely no way will won't be weaker next season if they do.

I think we need to get to the bottom of why the grass is always greener than it is in Wigan for anyone with the slightest good rep.

As has been said if you look at Wire/Leeds/St Helens (our main competition) how many of their top players have left in the last 3-4 years? Leeds are the exception and that was due to retirement (I include sinfield in that as anyone who thinks the RU was just another retirement fund is a bit naive)

Its not as though Sarge is setting the world alight either - he has potential but as yet to prove a class player.

I have 2 theories away from the far too obvious and easy money

1) The Management - the environment is proving detrimental and is making people want to leave (im not saying wane in particular but somewhere in that management structure)

2) Agents - is someone within wigan too good friends with an agent meaning that deals are being done with inside knowledge helping them along in the players/other teams favour

cpwigan wrote:

TrueBlueWarrior wrote:

cpwigan wrote:The SC differential is a reality and very relevant Dave. I will never blame a player for securing a better future from an incredibly short career.

I totally agree re Wane never focussing upon himself and blaming players, highlighting specific ones.

Not sure it will happen but Josh going to Union may be a good thing as physically in his time with us he may concentrate of his speed/agility even to the point of trimming some bulk and become an even better finisher rather than having to bulk up to play the role of a prop in his own 20.

How many coaches blame themselves publicly?

He might blame himself privately to the players during private meetings, unless you attend I suppose you will never know!!

How many blame specific players?

I think we win together we lose together and I need to look at every aspect is far better than always blaming players, particularly individuals.

Ultimately, I think the cap is far more important.

How many times has SW blamed specific players and what exactly other than Josh needs to improve which at the time he did, did SW say about Josh that was so personal and critical?