Re: Gleeson in squad

Fraggle · Post by **Fraggle** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:28 pm

Ron posted:
Sean Gleeson may want to play for Wigan (already being here) but will Wigan want him to play, considering all the other young players we have got rid off once they come of age!

Ah, this old chestnut again. People are never satisfied - they want experienced players to steady the ship, but they also want us to keep all the youngsters despite the fact we have far more youngsters than first team slots available. If you're thinking of Luke Robinson, he wasn't the first young half back we got rid of in recent times. Liam Bretherton was also highly thought of before he moved on into obscurity, also Phil Jones, and there's no real way of knowing if any of them would have been guaranteed to succeed in the first team at Wigan. It's not too many months ago last season everyone was waiting for Lam to return to the squad because Robinson was looking increasingly ineffective and out of his depth. As for others, Rob Ball wasn't a big success elsewhere, Ricky Donkey is propping up the lower leagues, Andy Farrell's siblings have never played Superleague, etc etc etc. On the other hand, we've brought through and retained Lockers, Hock, Aspy, Colbon, Melling, Wild, Hansenm, Beswick etc etc. Not all the kids can stay, we're not allowed a squad of 45 players.

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:17 pm

Fraggle posted:
Ron posted:
Sean Gleeson may want to play for Wigan (already being here) but will Wigan want him to play, considering all the other young players we have got rid off once they come of age!
Ah, this old chestnut again. People are never satisfied - they want experienced players to steady the ship, but they also want us to keep all the youngsters despite the fact we have far more youngsters than first team slots available. If you're thinking of Luke Robinson, he wasn't the first young half back we got rid of in recent times. Liam Bretherton was also highly thought of before he moved on into obscurity, also Phil Jones, and there's no real way of knowing if any of them would have been guaranteed to succeed in the first team at Wigan. It's not too many months ago last season everyone was waiting for Lam to return to the squad because Robinson was looking increasingly ineffective and out of his depth. As for others, Rob Ball wasn't a big success elsewhere, Ricky Donkey is propping up the lower leagues, Andy Farrell's siblings have never played Superleague, etc etc etc. On the other hand, we've brought through and retained Lockers, Hock, Aspy, Colbon, Melling, Wild, Hansenm, Beswick etc etc. Not all the kids can stay, we're not allowed a squad of 45 players.

Good post Fraggle. The point about Luke Robinsos is a good one and IMO most people complain about us releasing players with the benefit of hindsight. They forget that decisions about who stays and who goes have to be made in light of the circumstances present at the time the decision has to be made.

A good example of this is Briscoe. Just like LR by the time Rads was ready to come back the fans who had been raving abut him were going quiet as his performances tailed off.

When Rads came back it was obvious he was so much better. So given the club had a young full back on their books who wasn't likely to get a game for a few years who had been shown to be not as good as Rads what were they to do at the time? Release a different player and keep Briscoe languishing in reserves?

It is all right saying "look how good Briscoe is going at Hull" but that takes no account of the circumstances that applied when he did leave.

We need a balance between youth and experience and given the amount of players the club produces it is inevitable that we will release young players from time to time. Some will go on to be good players and draw the inevitable comments that we should have kept them. Some will not but no one will remember them and the rules won't allow us to keep them all.

Perhaps it would be easier for some fans if we didn't produce any players and just brought players in produced by other clubs? Then we would not be able to complain we released any promising youngsters at all!

Dave

GeoffN · Post by **GeoffN** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:04 pm

DaveO posted:
Perhaps it would be easier for some fans if we didn't produce any players and just brought players in produced by other clubs? Then we would not be able to complain we released any promising youngsters at all!

Dave

Optimistic, as always, DaveO! A rather more likely scenario is their complaining that we've signed the wrong players...too old, too young, too British etc.
Leeds and ourselves are the two best clubs in SL for producing our own players. (and, BTW, there's a certain common factor there.)

Fraggle · Post by **Fraggle** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:18 pm

GeoffN posted:
Optimistic, as always, DaveO! A rather more likely scenario is their complaining that we've signed the wrong players...too old, too young, too British etc.
Leeds and ourselves are the two best clubs in SL for producing our own players. (and, BTW, there's a certain common factor there.)

Erm, the fact we've both got staff who have been head coach but are not currently doing that particular job (assuming Powell is still at Leeds, you don't hear anything of him any more...).

Seriously, though, I hope Millward recognises the important job Dean Bell has been doing these last few years and doesn't do anything stupid like get rid of him.

The Black Pearl · Post by **The Black Pearl** » Wed May 25, 2005 5:29 pm

It's definitely the youngest Gleeson who will be in the squad. Let's see what he can do. Ian Millward must be impressed.

standishcat · Post by **standishcat** » Wed May 25, 2005 5:52 pm

I can't remember ever feeling so excited about a squad announcement. Will it be Friday?

I feel the same way. Can't wait to see what squad Millward goes for.

robjoenz · Post by **robjoenz** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:04 pm

Fraggle posted:
Ah, this old chestnut again. People are never satisfied - they want experienced players to steady the ship, but they also want us to keep all the youngsters despite the fact we have far more youngsters than first team slots available. If you're thinking of Luke Robinson, he wasn't the first young half back we got rid of in recent times. Liam Bretherton was also highly thought of before he moved on into obscurity, also Phil Jones, and there's no real way of knowing if any of them would have been guaranteed to succeed in the first team at Wigan. It's not too many months ago last season everyone was waiting for Lam to return to the squad because Robinson was looking increasingly ineffective and out of his depth. As for others, Rob Ball wasn't a big success elsewhere, Ricky Donkey is propping up the lower leagues, Andy Farrell's siblings have never played Superleague, etc etc etc. On the other hand, we've brought through and retained Lockers, Hock, Aspy, Colbon, Melling, Wild, Hansenm, Beswick etc etc. Not all the kids can stay, we're not allowed a squad of 45 players.

The one in DaveO's avatar you mean?

I think a lot of people are angry at the way players are let go though. We were told that Robinson wouldn't fit in under the salary cap and we were told that we would be making no more signings then Moran turns up. With Briscoe, he was told we didn't want him then when Lammy got injured we offered him a one year deal.

DaveO, you're very right, hindsight is a great thing, no-one knew Lam would get injured, no-one knew that Davico would be out after two minutes, no-one knew Vaealiki would start so slow and Hodgson would be playing well at Salford. Fraggle, you make an equally good point that we have retained probably the best we've produced. However, I do feel it's something to do with the way us fans get told about things and Lindsay seems to keep us in the dark that angers fans.